Why 60 - Olympics?

10-10-2009, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by bangkokbobby

I also like that professionals will play...you are absolutely correct...back in the amateur days, there were athletes that were paid under the table...I'm happy the days of shamateurism are over...let the Olympics pit the best athletes in the world against each other...plus I think if golf wants to stay in the Olympics and not be a two or three Olympic trial, it will help if stars support the event and actually go...

...I'm curious...how many non-Americans are there here in this forum who are following this story...the reason I ask is this...tennis is my favorite sport...but probably few tennis fans can name the medal winners from the last couple of Olympics without looking it up (or if they are fans of the players and know their complete records)...like golf, tennis has its Grand Slams that have a long and prestigious history...the Olympics are not up to that level...but, and this is the reason for the non-American question...it did always strike me that non-American players seemed...I dunno...more passionate about Olympic competition than Americans...honestly, Davis Cup, too...I remember when I worked at the USTA...getting the top Americans to commit to Davis Cup was like pulling teeth in some cases (I won't mention names) so, especially in the 90s, you had Davis Cup teams with members who were lower ranked Americans...it use to drive John McEnroe, who was extremely passionate about representing his country, nuts...I'm not saying Americans aren't patriotic...we most certainly are...but it seemed to me like the top tennis players...particularly the men...weren't as interested in events that didn't involve cashing big checks...if Tiger talks a good game about playing...but comes up with a mysterious injury a month before and other top men don't feel the trip is worth it...will having golf in the Olympics matter...

...my curiosity is whether the inclusion of golf in the Olympics is being greeted more enthusiastically by the international golf community than the American golf community...

Hmm maybe in the golf / tennis community. Opinion is split in England about those who want Olympics to be more track & field and sports where Olympics is the pinnacle and those who want these other sports included. But as far as the Olympics where the players are concerned - I don't see any lack of enthusiasm by American or European players. They may be lukewarm in the US about Davis Cup and Fed Cup - tennis (and in the case of the men in golf - even griping about not being paid in the Ryder Cup) but I don't see them being lukewarm about the Olympics.

I tried your little quiz about tennis medalists. And the only ones I could do without looking up for the women were 2008: singles gold, silver and doubles gold. 2004: singles gold. In the men in 2008: I looked up and thought of course. I instantly then remembered the singles and doubles gold after looking up. In 2004 for the men: hadn't a clue.

This post probably should be in the other Olympics thread.

gxer · 10-10-2009, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by waldorf

How about this idea you thought of in the Olympics but in another tournament with prizemoney where both women and men play at the same time and place on their respective tours (so not against each other) which was your suspicion at these Olympics. The people who come to watch see both the men and women so can be argued they are both as popular as each other in this tournament and then the women demand equal prizemoney at that tournament (not the rest of the tour). Isn't that fair? Or would you see the red mist?

If you truly believe co-ed professional golf will work, with men and women using different tees, then write a letter to Tim Finchem and Marty Evans suggesting that the PGA TOUR and the LPGA tour merge by cutting each of their memberships in half.

I think you will receive a short letter from each of them asking you this simple question.

Dear Waldofoss,
Are you a moron, an imbecile or an idiot?

Just asking,

Marty Evans (Retired Naval Admiral and LPGA tour acting commissioner)
Tim Finchem (PGA TOUR Commissioner)

10-11-2009, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by gxer

If you truly believe co-ed professional golf will work, with men and women using different tees, then write a letter to Tim Finchem and Marty Evans suggesting that the PGA TOUR and the LPGA tour merge by cutting each of their memberships in half.

I think you will receive a short letter from each of them asking you this simple question.

Dear Waldofoss,
Are you a moron, an imbecile or an idiot?

Just asking,

Marty Evans (Retired Naval Admiral and LPGA tour acting commissioner)
Tim Finchem (PGA TOUR Commissioner)

I think I've just touched a raw nerve from that little rant

.

No-one has suggested the two tours merge apart from you and I love it when someone can only argue back with moron, imbecile and idiot rather than reason. So I take it that you'd go ballistic if the scenari I mentioned ever happened (not the crap you are on about the organisations merging).

gxer · 10-11-2009, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by waldorf

I think I've just touched a raw nerve from that little rant .

No-one has suggested the two tours merge apart from you and I love it when someone can only argue back with moron, imbecile and idiot rather than reason. So I take it that you'd go ballistic if the scenari I mentioned ever happened (not the crap you are on about the organisations merging).

I never suggested that they merge and I used the letter to try and make a point with you, which I have discovered is a waste of time.

What I have suggested is that women's only golf go away and then they can compete for spots with men, FROM THE SAME TEES, which is far, far different than a merger in which people like you want women to have a tee advantage.
Have a good day.

heddwyn · 10-12-2009, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by gxer

I never suggested that they merge and I used the letter to try and make a point with you, which I have discovered is a waste of time.

What I have suggested is that women's only golf go away and then they can compete for spots with men, FROM THE SAME TEES, which is far, far different than a merger in which people like you want women to have a tee advantage.
Have a good day.

So back to your old argument of women should be barefoot and pregnant and nowhere near a golf course. What frightens you so much about women playing golf, I wonder?

xman5 · 10-12-2009, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Blue

I may be one of the few people who like the fact that the Olympics has for many years been open to professionals in almost every sport. This makes it the ultimate sports competition with the best athletes from all sports competing.

I'm not a fan of the over-commercialization of the Olympics, but at least the paying of athletes is out in the open now rather than under the table now as it was in the all-amateur era.

And the commercialization would have come to the Olympics whether the athletes were still all amateurs or not, just like we now have sports stadiums named after banks, airlines and razor blade companies.

Agree

gxer · 10-12-2009, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by heddwyn

So back to your old argument of women should be barefoot and pregnant and nowhere near a golf course. What frightens you so much about women playing golf, I wonder?

Not at all. but if women golfers want to compete with men at the top levels of professional golf they must, IMO, do so from the same tees so that the integrity of competition is maintained.

So the real question is what are you afraid of? Perhaps you fear the absence of women in professional golf if the integrity of the competition is maintained, is that it?

10-12-2009, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by gxer

I never suggested that they merge and I used the letter to try and make a point with you, which I have discovered is a waste of time.

What I have suggested is that women's only golf go away and then they can compete for spots with men, FROM THE SAME TEES, which is far, far different than a merger in which people like you want women to have a tee advantage.
Have a good day.

Well you certainly flip-flop around in your arguments a lot. Suggesting I write a letter on something which neither I nor you were advocating so you coul use the words moron, idiot as a reply to someting I didn't want. Yeah well ... But we still have this nonsense about the same tees.

I have no idea why you have this ridiculous obsession with the same tees. If the women are playing against each other on the same course on the same days as the men - there is no reason other than your pig headedness why they should be playing from the men's tees. And it would be stupid to instigate a change that they should.

If at the Olympics they were to play the same course - how much do you want to bet that they'll use the same tees?

heddwyn · 10-12-2009, 03:21 PM

My question was directed at you, gxer. You're the one who keeps wanting to get rid of women from the golf course. You keep on about the integrity of the game, what a crock. Have you been petioning the boxing fraternity that there shouldn't be any weight categories feather and super heavy weight in the ring together? What about tennis and making the women play 5 sets every tournament. Oops, the men don't do they.

When has it been said the men and women will be on the course at the same time in 2016?

gxer · 10-12-2009, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by heddwyn

My question was directed at you, gxer. You're the one who keeps wanting to get rid of women from the golf course. You keep on about the integrity of the game, what a crock. Have you been petioning the boxing fraternity that there shouldn't be any weight categories feather and super heavy weight in the ring together? What about tennis and making the women play 5 sets every tournament. Oops, the men don't do they.

When has it been said the men and women will be on the course at the same time in 2016?

Why is integrity of COMPETITION to you a crock?

IMO, women should not be competing in boxing, it's stupid enough for men to pound on each other, but women too? Where is this society going when people want to see women beat up on each other?

As for tennis, 3 sets is the norm for men as well, except in Grand Slam Events and then it's
5.

PS: I forgot to answer your last question and I'll give you the same answer I gave MP. Let's wait and see what they do and then we'll argue about it.

10-10-2009, 05:14 PM	#21
waldorf Guest Posts: n/a	Originally Posted by bangkokbobby I also like that professionals will play...you are absolutely correct...back in the amateur days, there were athletes that were paid under the table...I'm happy the days of shamateurism are over...let the Olympics pit the best athletes in the world against each other...plus I think if golf wants to stay in the Olympics and not be a two or three Olympic trial, it will help if stars support the event and actually go... ...I'm curious...how many non-Americans are there here in this forum who are following this story...the reason I ask is this...tennis is my favorite sport...but probably few tennis fans can name the medal winners from the last couple of Olympics without looking it up (or if they are fans of the players and know their complete records)...like golf, tennis has its Grand Slams that have a long and prestigious history...the Olympics are not up to that level...but, and this is the reason for the non-American question...it did always strike me that non-American players seemed...I dunno...more passionate about Olympic competition than Americans...honestly, Davis Cup, too...I remember when I worked at the USTA...getting the top Americans to commit to Davis Cup was like pulling teeth in some cases (I won't mention names) so, especially in the 90s, you had Davis Cup teams with members who were lower ranked Americans...it use to drive John McEnroe, who was extremely passionate about representing his country, nuts...I'm not saying Americans aren't patriotic...we most certainly are...but it seemed to me like the top tennis players...particularly the men...weren't as interested in events that didn't involve cashing big checks...if Tiger talks a good game about playing...but comes up with a mysterious injury a month before and other top men don't feel the trip is worth it...will having golf in the Olympics matter... ...my curiosity is whether the inclusion of golf in the Olympics is being greeted more enthusiastically by the international golf community than the American golf community... Hmm maybe in the golf / tennis community. Opinion is split in England about those who want Olympics to be more track & field and sports where Olympics is the pinnacle and those who want these other sports included. But as far as the Olympics where the players are concerned - I don't see any lack of enthusiasm by American or European players. They may be lukewarm in the US about Davis Cup and Fed Cup - tennis (and in the case of the men in golf - even griping about not being paid in the Ryder Cup) but I don't see them being lukewarm about the Olympics. I tried your little quiz about tennis medalists. And the only ones I could do without looking up for the women were 2008: singles gold, silver and doubles gold. 2004: singles gold. In the men in 2008: I looked up and thought of course. I instantly then remembered the singles and doubles gold after looking up. In 2004 for the men: hadn't a clue. This post probably should be in the other Olympics thread. Last edited by waldorf; 10-10-2009 at 05:17 PM.

10-10-2009, 10:00 PM	#22
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Originally Posted by waldorf How about this idea you thought of in the Olympics but in another tournament with prizemoney where both women and men play at the same time and place on their respective tours (so not against each other) which was your suspicion at these Olympics. The people who come to watch see both the men and women so can be argued they are both as popular as each other in this tournament and then the women demand equal prizemoney at that tournament (not the rest of the tour). Isn't that fair? Or would you see the red mist? If you truly believe co-ed professional golf will work, with men and women using different tees, then write a letter to Tim Finchem and Marty Evans suggesting that the PGA TOUR and the LPGA tour merge by cutting each of their memberships in half. I think you will receive a short letter from each of them asking you this simple question. Dear Waldofoss, Are you a moron, an imbecile or an idiot? Just asking, Marty Evans (Retired Naval Admiral and LPGA tour acting commissioner) Tim Finchem (PGA TOUR Commissioner) __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

10-11-2009, 01:54 AM	#23
waldorf Guest Posts: n/a	Originally Posted by gxer If you truly believe co-ed professional golf will work, with men and women using different tees, then write a letter to Tim Finchem and Marty Evans suggesting that the PGA TOUR and the LPGA tour merge by cutting each of their memberships in half. I think you will receive a short letter from each of them asking you this simple question. Dear Waldofoss, Are you a moron, an imbecile or an idiot? Just asking, Marty Evans (Retired Naval Admiral and LPGA tour acting commissioner) Tim Finchem (PGA TOUR Commissioner) I think I've just touched a raw nerve from that little rant . No-one has suggested the two tours merge apart from you and I love it when someone can only argue back with moron, imbecile and idiot rather than reason. So I take it that you'd go ballistic if the scenari I mentioned ever happened (not the crap you are on about the organisations merging). Last edited by waldorf; 10-11-2009 at 02:06 AM.

10-11-2009, 06:42 PM	#24
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Originally Posted by waldorf I think I've just touched a raw nerve from that little rant . No-one has suggested the two tours merge apart from you and I love it when someone can only argue back with moron, imbecile and idiot rather than reason. So I take it that you'd go ballistic if the scenari I mentioned ever happened (not the crap you are on about the organisations merging). I never suggested that they merge and I used the letter to try and make a point with you, which I have discovered is a waste of time. What I have suggested is that women's only golf go away and then they can compete for spots with men, FROM THE SAME TEES, which is far, far different than a merger in which people like you want women to have a tee advantage. Have a good day. __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270* Last edited by gxer; 10-11-2009 at 06:47 PM.

10-12-2009, 06:27 AM	#25
heddwyn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,380	Originally Posted by gxer I never suggested that they merge and I used the letter to try and make a point with you, which I have discovered is a waste of time. What I have suggested is that women's only golf go away and then they can compete for spots with men, FROM THE SAME TEES, which is far, far different than a merger in which people like you want women to have a tee advantage. Have a good day. So back to your old argument of women should be barefoot and pregnant and nowhere near a golf course. What frightens you so much about women playing golf, I wonder?

10-12-2009, 08:54 AM	#26
xman5 Contest Statistician Join Date: May 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 3,903	Originally Posted by Blue I may be one of the few people who like the fact that the Olympics has for many years been open to professionals in almost every sport. This makes it the ultimate sports competition with the best athletes from all sports competing. I'm not a fan of the over-commercialization of the Olympics, but at least the paying of athletes is out in the open now rather than under the table now as it was in the all-amateur era. And the commercialization would have come to the Olympics whether the athletes were still all amateurs or not, just like we now have sports stadiums named after banks, airlines and razor blade companies. Agree

10-12-2009, 09:24 AM	#27
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Originally Posted by heddwyn So back to your old argument of women should be barefoot and pregnant and nowhere near a golf course. What frightens you so much about women playing golf, I wonder? Not at all. but if women golfers want to compete with men at the top levels of professional golf they must, IMO, do so from the same tees so that the integrity of competition is maintained. So the real question is what are you afraid of? Perhaps you fear the absence of women in professional golf if the integrity of the competition is maintained, is that it? __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

10-12-2009, 12:58 PM	#28
waldorf Guest Posts: n/a	Originally Posted by gxer I never suggested that they merge and I used the letter to try and make a point with you, which I have discovered is a waste of time. What I have suggested is that women's only golf go away and then they can compete for spots with men, FROM THE SAME TEES, which is far, far different than a merger in which people like you want women to have a tee advantage. Have a good day. Well you certainly flip-flop around in your arguments a lot. Suggesting I write a letter on something which neither I nor you were advocating so you coul use the words moron, idiot as a reply to someting I didn't want. Yeah well ... But we still have this nonsense about the same tees. I have no idea why you have this ridiculous obsession with the same tees. If the women are playing against each other on the same course on the same days as the men - there is no reason other than your pig headedness why they should be playing from the men's tees. And it would be stupid to instigate a change that they should. If at the Olympics they were to play the same course - how much do you want to bet that they'll use the same tees? Last edited by waldorf; 10-12-2009 at 01:06 PM.

10-12-2009, 03:21 PM	#29
heddwyn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,380	My question was directed at you, gxer. You're the one who keeps wanting to get rid of women from the golf course. You keep on about the integrity of the game, what a crock. Have you been petioning the boxing fraternity that there shouldn't be any weight categories feather and super heavy weight in the ring together? What about tennis and making the women play 5 sets every tournament. Oops, the men don't do they. When has it been said the men and women will be on the course at the same time in 2016?

10-12-2009, 04:00 PM	#30
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Originally Posted by heddwyn My question was directed at you, gxer. You're the one who keeps wanting to get rid of women from the golf course. You keep on about the integrity of the game, what a crock. Have you been petioning the boxing fraternity that there shouldn't be any weight categories feather and super heavy weight in the ring together? What about tennis and making the women play 5 sets every tournament. Oops, the men don't do they. When has it been said the men and women will be on the course at the same time in 2016? Why is integrity of COMPETITION to you a crock? IMO, women should not be competing in boxing, it's stupid enough for men to pound on each other, but women too? Where is this society going when people want to see women beat up on each other? As for tennis, 3 sets is the norm for men as well, except in Grand Slam Events and then it's 5. PS: I forgot to answer your last question and I'll give you the same answer I gave MP. Let's wait and see what they do and then we'll argue about it. __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270* Last edited by gxer; 10-12-2009 at 04:06 PM.

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