Alexis Thompson - A Word of Caution

MarinePaul · 07-10-2007, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by wiefan

hi ya Blue....so how are you today..you said "the Michelle Wie rule -- that nobody can turn pro in golf before age 18."

How would this stand up in a court of Law??....perhaps if Buzzer is looking at this post ...maybe he can answer this

I can see the Tours putting this as a rule....but wouldn't you think that this just might be a little "Unconstitutional" insofar as "right to earn a living" goes....wadda ya think???...am I Being too far fetched here???

anyway....have a great day Blue....I still like ya, despite your negative view points on Wiesy and Team Wie....glad to see you back posting and not sitting on your hands.....see ya!!

I'm no expert, but I think that the tours would qualify as "private" entities, and could set their own rules as to age limits. Most professional sports associations do have similar rules. The NBA has something about when a player is considered eligible for the drsft, as does the NFL.

Buzzer · 07-10-2007, 08:21 PM

Hi Wiefan and Blue......
Setting a minimum age is not unheard of in sports or other activities. If you just leave it at age and no other reason......You can't say, for instance: "no one under the age of 18 of _________extraction, living outside of the continental United States for more than 2 consecutive years, etc".....you get my drift, eh?
It would really not be much different than requiring someone who serves alcohol to be a certain age......and, Wiefan, isn't there an age limit for dealers and other workers in the gambling industry in Vegas? How about an age limit to drive, drink, vote.....?????
I would say that an age limit set by the LPGA and/or the PGA would easily pass court scrutiny. BUT, don't take my opinion to the bank just yet......I HAVE been overturned on appeal a few times.
Viva Annika

Blue · 07-10-2007, 10:14 PM

If all the golf tours: PGA, LPGA, Futures, Nationwide, Asian, European, LET, etc. adopt a standard age of 18 for membership and agree not to offer sponsor exemptions to kids under 18 that goes part of the way toward solving the problem.

With regard to open competitions, it's as simple as the USGA, R&A, etc. instituting age minimums. They already have age minimums and maximums in place for many of their other other competitions (jr. and senior and mid-am competitions for example), so I don't think there should be a legal challenge. They're private organizations holding a sports contest. They can certainly decide who they want to invite to participate, as long as they're not violating laws, like the ADA.

ajraymond · 07-10-2007, 10:39 PM

Blue I get what you're saying but I'd hate to see all young players get painted with the same brush because of one travesty. I would agree on the sponsors exemptions not being given to minors but if they are good enough to qualify, I'm fine with it. Like I said, there are a lot of good stories of young players on tour but because of the one situation---- I think Miss Bivens is going to lean towards the better safe than sorry route in the future. I would say is she ever wanted to know what went wrong with the Wie situation she could look in the mirror and blame that person who gave them everything they wanted on a silver platter and at the expense of LPGA members who were nothing but thankful to be on the LPGA Tour.

wiefan · 07-11-2007, 02:32 AM

Hi ya everyone...ok!!! I will venture into these "shark-infested Waters" of legal stuff....here is what I think... the PGA, LPGA and any other golfing organization would get a pile of Lawsuits if they did make a rule about this age stuff....my reasoning being because a precedent has already been made....I am sure that any good lawyer could fight this with examples of situations where letting these kids turn Professional HAS WORKED....both for the benefit of the organization and the Player herself

now everyone seems to want to use Wiesy as their Example of wrong doings....especially looking at the word "One Travesty"....perhaps I am Mistaken and it wasn't meant to be about Wiesy....hmmmmm....but think about this....because Wiesy was allowed to turn Professional before 18....Katrina got $500,000, the deformed kids in Korea got their needed surgery, the homeless Kids on the Leeward side of Oahu got a place to study and use a computer after school, the Hawaii Junior Golf got a much needed donation to help their Junior players....and these are just some of the GOOD things that has happened BECAUSE Michelle was allowed to turn Professional Before 18 and also all of this happened because Michelle was allowed to play LPGA and PGA events...despite being UNDER 18 years of age....these things would not have taken place in that time frame if Wiesy was not allowed to play or turn Professional BEFORE 18 years old.....or am I wrong here???

so I say this...before anyone talks about Wiesy being the culprit of this discussion...ask yourself this....what makes any of you so darn sure that for Wiesy, turning Professional was a BAD thing....she is going through a rough patch of her life now...some people are already putting her in a casket...she ain't dead...not even close....she has time on her side to straighten out things....turning professional and recieving her huge endorsements is a blessing that even Sophie pointed out "That others would love to have"....so Wiesy is a media magnet....both for good and bad news....the kid and her team are tough....they will weather this storm

anyway....back on track....it is my belief that the Golf Associations would give in to the lawsuits because of precedents that are already being allowed....just my opinion

have a good day everyone....I will count my blessings as I have maybe survived this shark attack....gulp!!!.....see ya!!

MarinePaul · 07-11-2007, 07:53 AM

Wiefan, any organization has the right, as you're so fond of saying, to "tweak" their bylaws. Aren't you the one who keeps saying that the LPGA could change this rule or that rule to allow Wie to get more exemptions?

The point is, we're supposed to lern from history. If the organization reasons that allowing minors to become professional has historically proven to be a mistake, then they absolutely have the right to change the bylaws to correct the problem.

If you remember, I didn't approve of Votaw allowing Aree to petition for membership, because I said at that time that it would create problems down the line. It happened later with the Morgan and In- Bee. Had the bylaws been adhered to, both would have been a non-issue. So, there is also a precedent that bylaws can be adapted.

For every positive you can name the arose from any young player turning professional at an early age, there are at least that many negatives. Even outside of sports, there are problems with young people getting "too much, too soon." Look at all the child actors whose lives have gone down the tubes because they can't handle celebrity.

Alexis has the potential to become the media's "next big thing." Her father, in what I think is a great move, appears to be trying toprotect her from that.

Blue · 07-11-2007, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by ajraymond

Blue I get what you're saying but I'd hate to see all young players get painted with the same brush because of one travesty.

Is it only one travesty? How many golfers have turned turned pro before 18? How has it turned out for all of them? Remember Ty Tryon? There are similar stories in other sports -- Jennifer Capriati ...

You can equate it to the 16 driving age, 18 voting age or 21 drinking age. Some kids may be able to handle the responsibility younger, some might not. However a reasonable age was chosen that seems to be best for the most number of people.

paddyman · 07-11-2007, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by MarinePaul

Alexis has the potential to become the media's "next big thing." Her father, in what I think is a great move, appears to be trying toprotect her from that.

I honestly think Alexis has a long way to go to be called the next big thing. Sure she got a lot of attention for qualifying for the US Women's Open and rightly so, it was a big achievement.

However for her to get Wie style attention, Wie did get a top 10 in a major at 13 years old and play in the last group with Annika.
I think Alexis would have to improve an awful lot to get to that kind of standard. Maybe even if she made a cut in some major it might give her some extra attention, but if she were to miss the cut by a few strokes or more, the media arn't really going to start calling her the next big thing.

I think Alexis will do well to join the group of very good good young players like Vicky Hurst, Esther Choe and Kimberly Kim but even they aren't making many cuts so it isn't easy for amateurs coming up on the lpga tour.

dangerbob · 07-11-2007, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by paddyman

I honestly think Alexis has a long way to go to be called the next big thing. Sure she got a lot of attention for qualifying for the US Women's Open and rightly so, it was a big achievement.

In order for Alexis to become the next "Big Thing", she has to sign millions of dollars with some sponsors, then someone has to start an Alexismania movement and then have some "bashers" to go along with it!

MarinePaul · 07-11-2007, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by paddyman

I honestly think Alexis has a long way to go to be called the next big thing. Sure she got a lot of attention for qualifying for the US Women's Open and rightly so, it was a big achievement.

However for her to get Wie style attention, Wie did get a top 10 in a major at 13 years old and play in the last group with Annika.
I think Alexis would have to improve an awful lot to get to that kind of standard. Maybe even if she made a cut in some major it might give her some extra attention, but if she were to miss the cut by a few strokes or more, the media arn't really going to start calling her the next big thing.

I think Alexis will do well to join the group of very good good young players like Vicky Hurst, Esther Choe and Kimberly Kim but even they aren't making many cuts so it isn't easy for amateurs coming up on the lpga tour.

Let's say she qualifies again next year, just for the sake of argument. The media will begin to make unfair comparisons, then try to put demands on her time, and the whole nine yards.

With the Wie mystique pretty much over, at least for now, the media will be starved to find another young player to promote as the "new Annika." It doesn't have to be accurate, since the media is more concerned with making news than reporting it.

07-10-2007, 06:49 PM	#21
MarinePaul Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 7,994	Originally Posted by wiefan hi ya Blue....so how are you today..you said "the Michelle Wie rule -- that nobody can turn pro in golf before age 18." How would this stand up in a court of Law??....perhaps if Buzzer is looking at this post ...maybe he can answer this I can see the Tours putting this as a rule....but wouldn't you think that this just might be a little "Unconstitutional" insofar as "right to earn a living" goes....wadda ya think???...am I Being too far fetched here??? anyway....have a great day Blue....I still like ya, despite your negative view points on Wiesy and Team Wie....glad to see you back posting and not sitting on your hands.....see ya!! I'm no expert, but I think that the tours would qualify as "private" entities, and could set their own rules as to age limits. Most professional sports associations do have similar rules. The NBA has something about when a player is considered eligible for the drsft, as does the NFL. __________________ Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have.

07-11-2007, 07:53 AM	#26
MarinePaul Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 7,994	Wiefan, any organization has the right, as you're so fond of saying, to "tweak" their bylaws. Aren't you the one who keeps saying that the LPGA could change this rule or that rule to allow Wie to get more exemptions? The point is, we're supposed to lern from history. If the organization reasons that allowing minors to become professional has historically proven to be a mistake, then they absolutely have the right to change the bylaws to correct the problem. If you remember, I didn't approve of Votaw allowing Aree to petition for membership, because I said at that time that it would create problems down the line. It happened later with the Morgan and In- Bee. Had the bylaws been adhered to, both would have been a non-issue. So, there is also a precedent that bylaws can be adapted. For every positive you can name the arose from any young player turning professional at an early age, there are at least that many negatives. Even outside of sports, there are problems with young people getting "too much, too soon." Look at all the child actors whose lives have gone down the tubes because they can't handle celebrity. Alexis has the potential to become the media's "next big thing." Her father, in what I think is a great move, appears to be trying toprotect her from that. __________________ Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have. Last edited by MarinePaul; 07-11-2007 at 08:11 AM.

07-11-2007, 08:08 AM	#27
Blue Forum Moderator Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2009. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,646 Images: 6	Originally Posted by ajraymond Blue I get what you're saying but I'd hate to see all young players get painted with the same brush because of one travesty. Is it only one travesty? How many golfers have turned turned pro before 18? How has it turned out for all of them? Remember Ty Tryon? There are similar stories in other sports -- Jennifer Capriati ... You can equate it to the 16 driving age, 18 voting age or 21 drinking age. Some kids may be able to handle the responsibility younger, some might not. However a reasonable age was chosen that seems to be best for the most number of people.

07-11-2007, 08:57 AM	#28
paddyman Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,613	Originally Posted by MarinePaul Alexis has the potential to become the media's "next big thing." Her father, in what I think is a great move, appears to be trying toprotect her from that. I honestly think Alexis has a long way to go to be called the next big thing. Sure she got a lot of attention for qualifying for the US Women's Open and rightly so, it was a big achievement. However for her to get Wie style attention, Wie did get a top 10 in a major at 13 years old and play in the last group with Annika. I think Alexis would have to improve an awful lot to get to that kind of standard. Maybe even if she made a cut in some major it might give her some extra attention, but if she were to miss the cut by a few strokes or more, the media arn't really going to start calling her the next big thing. I think Alexis will do well to join the group of very good good young players like Vicky Hurst, Esther Choe and Kimberly Kim but even they aren't making many cuts so it isn't easy for amateurs coming up on the lpga tour.

07-11-2007, 10:05 AM	#29
dangerbob Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 4,860	Originally Posted by paddyman I honestly think Alexis has a long way to go to be called the next big thing. Sure she got a lot of attention for qualifying for the US Women's Open and rightly so, it was a big achievement. In order for Alexis to become the next "Big Thing", she has to sign millions of dollars with some sponsors, then someone has to start an Alexismania movement and then have some "bashers" to go along with it! __________________ "On this hapless EARTH There's small SINCERITY of mirth And LAUGHTER oft is but an ART To drown the outcry of the HEART!"

07-10-2007, 08:21 PM	#22
Buzzer Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hilton Head, SC Posts: 2,822 Images: 13	Hi Wiefan and Blue...... Setting a minimum age is not unheard of in sports or other activities. If you just leave it at age and no other reason......You can't say, for instance: "no one under the age of 18 of _________extraction, living outside of the continental United States for more than 2 consecutive years, etc".....you get my drift, eh? It would really not be much different than requiring someone who serves alcohol to be a certain age......and, Wiefan, isn't there an age limit for dealers and other workers in the gambling industry in Vegas? How about an age limit to drive, drink, vote.....????? I would say that an age limit set by the LPGA and/or the PGA would easily pass court scrutiny. BUT, don't take my opinion to the bank just yet......I HAVE been overturned on appeal a few times. Viva Annika

07-10-2007, 10:14 PM	#23
Blue Forum Moderator Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2009. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,646 Images: 6	If all the golf tours: PGA, LPGA, Futures, Nationwide, Asian, European, LET, etc. adopt a standard age of 18 for membership and agree not to offer sponsor exemptions to kids under 18 that goes part of the way toward solving the problem. With regard to open competitions, it's as simple as the USGA, R&A, etc. instituting age minimums. They already have age minimums and maximums in place for many of their other other competitions (jr. and senior and mid-am competitions for example), so I don't think there should be a legal challenge. They're private organizations holding a sports contest. They can certainly decide who they want to invite to participate, as long as they're not violating laws, like the ADA.

07-10-2007, 10:39 PM	#24
ajraymond Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 656	Blue I get what you're saying but I'd hate to see all young players get painted with the same brush because of one travesty. I would agree on the sponsors exemptions not being given to minors but if they are good enough to qualify, I'm fine with it. Like I said, there are a lot of good stories of young players on tour but because of the one situation---- I think Miss Bivens is going to lean towards the better safe than sorry route in the future. I would say is she ever wanted to know what went wrong with the Wie situation she could look in the mirror and blame that person who gave them everything they wanted on a silver platter and at the expense of LPGA members who were nothing but thankful to be on the LPGA Tour.

07-11-2007, 02:32 AM	#25
wiefan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,135	Hi ya everyone...ok!!! I will venture into these "shark-infested Waters" of legal stuff....here is what I think... the PGA, LPGA and any other golfing organization would get a pile of Lawsuits if they did make a rule about this age stuff....my reasoning being because a precedent has already been made....I am sure that any good lawyer could fight this with examples of situations where letting these kids turn Professional HAS WORKED....both for the benefit of the organization and the Player herself now everyone seems to want to use Wiesy as their Example of wrong doings....especially looking at the word "One Travesty"....perhaps I am Mistaken and it wasn't meant to be about Wiesy....hmmmmm....but think about this....because Wiesy was allowed to turn Professional before 18....Katrina got $500,000, the deformed kids in Korea got their needed surgery, the homeless Kids on the Leeward side of Oahu got a place to study and use a computer after school, the Hawaii Junior Golf got a much needed donation to help their Junior players....and these are just some of the GOOD things that has happened BECAUSE Michelle was allowed to turn Professional Before 18 and also all of this happened because Michelle was allowed to play LPGA and PGA events...despite being UNDER 18 years of age....these things would not have taken place in that time frame if Wiesy was not allowed to play or turn Professional BEFORE 18 years old.....or am I wrong here??? so I say this...before anyone talks about Wiesy being the culprit of this discussion...ask yourself this....what makes any of you so darn sure that for Wiesy, turning Professional was a BAD thing....she is going through a rough patch of her life now...some people are already putting her in a casket...she ain't dead...not even close....she has time on her side to straighten out things....turning professional and recieving her huge endorsements is a blessing that even Sophie pointed out "That others would love to have"....so Wiesy is a media magnet....both for good and bad news....the kid and her team are tough....they will weather this storm anyway....back on track....it is my belief that the Golf Associations would give in to the lawsuits because of precedents that are already being allowed....just my opinion have a good day everyone....I will count my blessings as I have maybe survived this shark attack....gulp!!!.....see ya!!

07-11-2007, 10:40 AM	#30
MarinePaul Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 7,994	Originally Posted by paddyman I honestly think Alexis has a long way to go to be called the next big thing. Sure she got a lot of attention for qualifying for the US Women's Open and rightly so, it was a big achievement. However for her to get Wie style attention, Wie did get a top 10 in a major at 13 years old and play in the last group with Annika. I think Alexis would have to improve an awful lot to get to that kind of standard. Maybe even if she made a cut in some major it might give her some extra attention, but if she were to miss the cut by a few strokes or more, the media arn't really going to start calling her the next big thing. I think Alexis will do well to join the group of very good good young players like Vicky Hurst, Esther Choe and Kimberly Kim but even they aren't making many cuts so it isn't easy for amateurs coming up on the lpga tour. Let's say she qualifies again next year, just for the sake of argument. The media will begin to make unfair comparisons, then try to put demands on her time, and the whole nine yards. With the Wie mystique pretty much over, at least for now, the media will be starved to find another young player to promote as the "new Annika." It doesn't have to be accurate, since the media is more concerned with making news than reporting it. __________________ Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have.

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