Wrong Attitudes

gxer · 07-13-2009, 12:14 PM

Hollis Stacy's attitude is particularly hostile, Christina Kim is more clueless than hostile.
------------------------------------------
Christian Kim
“Carolyn stood up for us as commissioner and said we are worth the sanctioning fees and the television fees she was asking. She had a great vision of where the LPGA should be. It was radical, but she believed we were worth it, that we should be at the top echelon of sports. She had full faith. She was very aggressive in wanting to elevate the tour to such a high level.

Hollis Stacy
“If these players today want to go back to being the red-headed step child, and getting kicked around by the PGA Tour, just getting the scraps, and not having a pension, then, yeah, buy out Carolyn. But it’s a big, big mistake. I don’t think these players understand we’ve had former players die near poverty.

“I’m behind Carolyn. She’s tough. She’s had to be tough. Women have been taken advantage of for years.

Open Fire: Players Take Aim - RANDALL MELL - Golf News & Articles | Golf Channel

Whistling Straight · 07-13-2009, 12:23 PM

I'm sure 100% of the players backed Biven's vision but it was the manner in which she tried to accomplish it that eventually did her in. Ten domestic tournaments with long time loyal tour stops gone, or possibly will be gone, does not get them a pension. The method to achieve the means failed.

MarinePaul · 07-13-2009, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Whistling Straight

I'm sure 100% of the players backed Biven's vision but it was the manner in which she tried to accomplish it that eventually did her in. Ten domestic tournaments with long time loyal tour stops gone, or possibly will be gone, does not get them a pension. The method to achieve the means failed.

That's the problem, I think. The intent was good, but the method failed.

gxer · 07-13-2009, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Whistling Straight

I'm sure 100% of the players backed Biven's vision but it was the manner in which she tried to accomplish it that eventually did her in. Ten domestic tournaments with long time loyal tour stops gone, or possibly will be gone, does not get them a pension. The method to achieve the means failed.

Well of course they did, they saw visions of $,$$$,$$$'s floating in their brains but the Bivens' vision was wrong from the get-go.

golfnut · 07-13-2009, 09:43 PM

i don't think her vision was wrong, it was just a combination of a very severe recession and her inability to be very flexible at times when it was needed most. reverse those two things and i think we would all be hailing her as a godsend for the tour.

heddwyn · 07-13-2009, 09:52 PM

Golfnut, if we could see that, why couldn't they? Though I still don't think you can blame it all on the recession.

golfnut · 07-13-2009, 10:01 PM

i'm not blaming it all on the recession, though i don't think that it's getting enough credit for what is going on. she also had a tendancy not to be flexible, which you have to be in a recession as bad as this one.

ctmurray · 07-13-2009, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by heddwyn

Golfnut, if we could see that, why couldn't they? Though I still don't think you can blame it all on the recession.

This recession is unlike anything we have seen, closer to 1929 than you think. Meridith Whitney (big deal analyst on wall street) today is predicting 13% unemployment (which is counted more generously than in the past, you should follow the U6 number to compare with the '80's recession and these would say we are at 16% now). On the same page as the U6 employment you will see a graph of the CPI, a measure of inflation, we are close to seeing deflation as the real threat (and I would argue things like the LPGA value have depreciated as have home values).

But if you have not lost your job, not trying to sell a house, not trying to sell a car you might think this is not such a big deal. Real CEOs selling real products know that sales are way down, and you see this in daily sales numbers. But something like the LPGA only gets "marked to market" or valued when you go to re-negotiate a contract, or you lose a sponsor. So since I am tuned into the recession I saw the loss of events and sponsors as a sign of the larger recession. I suspect Bivens was slower to catch onto the wave.

golfnut · 07-13-2009, 10:16 PM

i agree completely ctmurray, very well said

lslang · 07-13-2009, 10:22 PM

golfnut..ctmurry...we are on the same page.... I am sorry to see Carolyn go.. she is all about business

07-13-2009, 12:14 PM	#1
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,049	Wrong Attitudes Hollis Stacy's attitude is particularly hostile, Christina Kim is more clueless than hostile. ------------------------------------------ Christian Kim “Carolyn stood up for us as commissioner and said we are worth the sanctioning fees and the television fees she was asking. She had a great vision of where the LPGA should be. It was radical, but she believed we were worth it, *that we should be at the top echelon of sports. She had full faith. She was very aggressive in wanting to elevate the tour to such a high level. Hollis Stacy “If these players today want to go back to being the red-headed step child, and getting kicked around by the PGA Tour, just getting the scraps,* and not having a pension, then, yeah, buy out Carolyn. But it’s a big, big mistake. I don’t think these players understand we’ve had former players die near poverty. “I’m behind Carolyn. She’s tough. She’s had to be tough. Women have been taken advantage of for years. Open Fire: Players Take Aim - RANDALL MELL - Golf News & Articles \| Golf Channel __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

07-13-2009, 12:50 PM	#3
MarinePaul Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 8,001	Originally Posted by Whistling Straight I'm sure 100% of the players backed Biven's vision but it was the manner in which she tried to accomplish it that eventually did her in. Ten domestic tournaments with long time loyal tour stops gone, or possibly will be gone, does not get them a pension. The method to achieve the means failed. That's the problem, I think. The intent was good, but the method failed. __________________ Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have.

07-13-2009, 12:54 PM	#4
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,049	Originally Posted by Whistling Straight I'm sure 100% of the players backed Biven's vision but it was the manner in which she tried to accomplish it that eventually did her in. Ten domestic tournaments with long time loyal tour stops gone, or possibly will be gone, does not get them a pension. The method to achieve the means failed. Well of course they did, they saw visions of $,$$$,$$$'s floating in their brains but the Bivens' vision was wrong from the get-go. __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

07-13-2009, 10:11 PM	#8
ctmurray Donating Member Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2010. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,176	Originally Posted by heddwyn Golfnut, if we could see that, why couldn't they? Though I still don't think you can blame it all on the recession. This recession is unlike anything we have seen, closer to 1929 than you think. Meridith Whitney (big deal analyst on wall street) today is predicting 13% unemployment (which is counted more generously than in the past, you should follow the U6 number to compare with the '80's recession and these would say we are at 16% now). On the same page as the U6 employment you will see a graph of the CPI, a measure of inflation, we are close to seeing deflation as the real threat (and I would argue things like the LPGA value have depreciated as have home values). But if you have not lost your job, not trying to sell a house, not trying to sell a car you might think this is not such a big deal. Real CEOs selling real products know that sales are way down, and you see this in daily sales numbers. But something like the LPGA only gets "marked to market" or valued when you go to re-negotiate a contract, or you lose a sponsor. So since I am tuned into the recession I saw the loss of events and sponsors as a sign of the larger recession. I suspect Bivens was slower to catch onto the wave.

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07-13-2009, 12:23 PM	#2
Whistling Straight Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 450	I'm sure 100% of the players backed Biven's vision but it was the manner in which she tried to accomplish it that eventually did her in. Ten domestic tournaments with long time loyal tour stops gone, or possibly will be gone, does not get them a pension. The method to achieve the means failed.

07-13-2009, 09:43 PM	#5
golfnut Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mandeville, Louisiana Posts: 484	i don't think her vision was wrong, it was just a combination of a very severe recession and her inability to be very flexible at times when it was needed most. reverse those two things and i think we would all be hailing her as a godsend for the tour.

07-13-2009, 09:52 PM	#6
heddwyn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,380	Golfnut, if we could see that, why couldn't they? Though I still don't think you can blame it all on the recession.

07-13-2009, 10:01 PM	#7
golfnut Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mandeville, Louisiana Posts: 484	i'm not blaming it all on the recession, though i don't think that it's getting enough credit for what is going on. she also had a tendancy not to be flexible, which you have to be in a recession as bad as this one.

07-13-2009, 10:16 PM	#9
golfnut Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mandeville, Louisiana Posts: 484	i agree completely ctmurray, very well said

07-13-2009, 10:22 PM	#10
lslang Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3	golfnut..ctmurry...we are on the same page.... I am sorry to see Carolyn go.. she is all about business