Bivens has support

gxer · 07-09-2009, 09:53 AM

Old timers, at least some of them, support Bivens.
-------------------------------------------
Mann minced no words in her displeasure with the timing of a letter signed by 15 LPGA players and sent to the tour's board last week that called on Bivens to retire.
"They should have their heads examined," Mann said. "For them to do this, the week before the U.S. Open, is sabotage. The timing of what they're doing is one of the most in inappropriate things I've ever seen."

http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/g...a_commissioner

gxer · 07-09-2009, 09:58 AM

The old gals are also playing the "girl" card.
-------------------------------
Suggs and Mann also said complaints about Bivens' management style fall under an old stereotype.
"If a man is a tough negotiator in business, then he's admired," Suggs said. "But if it's a woman, then she's a - -."
"Is her style always right? No," Mann said. "Has she made mistakes? Yes. But on balance, Carolyn has tried to do the right things for the LPGA. There are unique economic problems with golf right now, and these players just don't get it. Let them try to go out in the real world right now and see how much money they can make."

heddwyn · 07-09-2009, 10:21 AM

Are the economic problems unique to golf? This article seems to say the problem is entirely economic, er, don't think so.

Out of interest how many tournaments have been lost in the last two months?

Saint-Just X · 07-09-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by gxer

The old gals are also playing the "girl" card.
-------------------------------
Suggs and Mann also said complaints about Bivens' management style fall under an old stereotype.
"If a man is a tough negotiator in business, then he's admired," Suggs said. "But if it's a woman, then she's a - -."
"Is her style always right? No," Mann said. "Has she made mistakes? Yes. But on balance, Carolyn has tried to do the right things for the LPGA. There are unique economic problems with golf right now, and these players just don't get it. Let them try to go out in the real world right now and see how much money they can make."

It's always terribly sad when that card is pulled out.

She isn't being criticised for her gender ;it's beyond ridiculous to suggest that chromosomes have any part in it.

It didn't occur to either of these two that the people leading the call for Bivens' removal are other women themselves ?...

Pax Vobiscum
Saint-Just X

gxer · 07-09-2009, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Saint-Just X

It's always terribly sad when that card is pulled out.

She isn't being criticised for her gender ;it's beyond ridiculous to suggest that chromosomes have any part in it.

It didn't occur to either of these two that the people leading the call for Bivens' removal are other women themselves ?...

Pax Vobiscum
Saint-Just X

I think we can agree that the LPGA tour situation today is tough for everyone; fans, active and retired players, sponsors and management.
While Bivens isn't to blame for everything, what the old timers don't seem to understand is that Bivens is to blame for a management style that doesn't work in the world of women's sports, including the LPGA tour.

heddwyn · 07-09-2009, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by gxer

I think we can agree that the LPGA tour situation today is tough for everyone; fans, active and retired players, sponsors and management.
While Bivens isn't to blame for everything, what the old timers don't seem to understand is that Bivens is to blame for a management style that doesn't work in the world of women's sports, including the LPGA tour.

Which means, gxer, chromosomes have a part in it.

I'm not suddenly throwing my support behind Bivens, but I'd bet some of the long term sponsors would not expect an aggressive stance from the 'little lady'. Sorry, guys, but the stereotype still exists in the boardroom.

When, exactly, would have been a good time for all this to blow up?

gxer · 07-09-2009, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by heddwyn

Which means, gxer, chromosomes have a part in it.

I'm not suddenly throwing my support behind Bivens, but I'd bet some of the long term sponsors would not expect an aggressive stance from the 'little lady'. Sorry, guys, but the stereotype still exists in the boardroom.

When, exactly, would have been a good time for all this to blow up?

What I am saying is that women's sports are NOT in a position to make demands and that is just the way it is, like it or not.

IMO, a "Hat in Hand" approach works best when dealing with sponsors of women's sports.

Saint-Just X · 07-09-2009, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by heddwyn

I'm not suddenly throwing my support behind Bivens, but I'd bet some of the long term sponsors would not expect an aggressive stance from the 'little lady'. Sorry, guys, but the stereotype still exists in the boardroom.

It's her stance that has alienated sponsors,not her genes...

Pax Vobiscum
Saint-Just X

MarinePaul · 07-09-2009, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by heddwyn

When, exactly, would have been a good time for all this to blow up?

That's really the question. Should they wait until all of the sponsors bail before bringing it up? Mann and Suggs are no longer active players and aren't effected by the current loss of tournaments.

I'm not sure what the answer to the current situation is, but I'm sure it's not Bivens. Apparently, so are today's players.

ajraymond · 07-09-2009, 12:49 PM

Back from vacation to see this blow right up! It doesn't matter if Bivens was man or woman, black blue white or yellow........ she did a terrible job. Carol Mann is talking about tough economic times but it was Bivens who was unwilling to take a haircut on purses......... not the players. The players were seeing the writing on the wall......... not Bivens. Maybe in retrospect it was a great decision to bring this out at the U.S Open. It is the biggest most televised event in their season. They could expose Bivens who was willing to fight to the bitter end it appears until she was offered a buyout. Great job from the players. I see nothing but positive that can come from this. Hopefully these small tournaments can retain or even get their stops back.

Nancy Lopez as the face with intelligent business minds and marketers for commish!!!

07-09-2009, 09:53 AM	#1
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Bivens has support Old timers, at least some of them, support Bivens. ------------------------------------------- Mann minced no words in her displeasure with the timing of a letter signed by 15 LPGA players and sent to the tour's board last week that called on Bivens to retire. "They should have their heads examined," Mann said. "For them to do this, the week before the U.S. Open, is sabotage. The timing of what they're doing is one of the most in inappropriate things I've ever seen." http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/g...a_commissioner __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

07-09-2009, 09:58 AM	#2
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	The old gals are also playing the "girl" card. ------------------------------- Suggs and Mann also said complaints about Bivens' management style fall under an old stereotype. "If a man is a tough negotiator in business, then he's admired," Suggs said. "But if it's a woman, then she's a - -." "Is her style always right? No," Mann said. "Has she made mistakes? Yes. But on balance, Carolyn has tried to do the right things for the LPGA. There are unique economic problems with golf right now, and these players just don't get it. Let them try to go out in the real world right now and see how much money they can make." __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

07-09-2009, 10:28 AM	#4
Saint-Just X Senior Member Contests: Joint 3nd place overall winner 2010 Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,675	Originally Posted by gxer The old gals are also playing the "girl" card. ------------------------------- Suggs and Mann also said complaints about Bivens' management style fall under an old stereotype. "If a man is a tough negotiator in business, then he's admired," Suggs said. "But if it's a woman, then she's a - -." "Is her style always right? No," Mann said. "Has she made mistakes? Yes. But on balance, Carolyn has tried to do the right things for the LPGA. There are unique economic problems with golf right now, and these players just don't get it. Let them try to go out in the real world right now and see how much money they can make." It's always terribly sad when that card is pulled out. She isn't being criticised for her gender ;it's beyond ridiculous to suggest that chromosomes have any part in it. It didn't occur to either of these two that the people leading the call for Bivens' removal are other women themselves ?... Pax Vobiscum Saint-Just X __________________ I have sent the most relevant posts you made about Paula Creamer to her lawyers. Hope they take action against your statements - Elf

07-09-2009, 11:11 AM	#5
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Originally Posted by Saint-Just X It's always terribly sad when that card is pulled out. She isn't being criticised for her gender ;it's beyond ridiculous to suggest that chromosomes have any part in it. It didn't occur to either of these two that the people leading the call for Bivens' removal are other women themselves ?... Pax Vobiscum Saint-Just X I think we can agree that the LPGA tour situation today is tough for everyone; fans, active and retired players, sponsors and management. While Bivens isn't to blame for everything, what the old timers don't seem to understand is that Bivens is to blame for a management style that doesn't work in the world of women's sports, including the LPGA tour. __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

07-09-2009, 11:41 AM	#6
heddwyn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,380	Originally Posted by gxer I think we can agree that the LPGA tour situation today is tough for everyone; fans, active and retired players, sponsors and management. While Bivens isn't to blame for everything, what the old timers don't seem to understand is that Bivens is to blame for a management style that doesn't work in the world of women's sports, including the LPGA tour. Which means, gxer, chromosomes have a part in it. I'm not suddenly throwing my support behind Bivens, but I'd bet some of the long term sponsors would not expect an aggressive stance from the 'little lady'. Sorry, guys, but the stereotype still exists in the boardroom. When, exactly, would have been a good time for all this to blow up?

07-09-2009, 10:21 AM	#3
heddwyn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,380	Are the economic problems unique to golf? This article seems to say the problem is entirely economic, er, don't think so. Out of interest how many tournaments have been lost in the last two months?

07-09-2009, 11:44 AM	#7
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Originally Posted by heddwyn Which means, gxer, chromosomes have a part in it. I'm not suddenly throwing my support behind Bivens, but I'd bet some of the long term sponsors would not expect an aggressive stance from the 'little lady'. Sorry, guys, but the stereotype still exists in the boardroom. When, exactly, would have been a good time for all this to blow up? What I am saying is that women's sports are NOT in a position to make demands and that is just the way it is, like it or not. IMO, a "Hat in Hand" approach works best when dealing with sponsors of women's sports. __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270* Last edited by gxer; 07-09-2009 at 11:46 AM.

07-09-2009, 12:28 PM	#8
Saint-Just X Senior Member Contests: Joint 3nd place overall winner 2010 Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,675	Originally Posted by heddwyn I'm not suddenly throwing my support behind Bivens, but I'd bet some of the long term sponsors would not expect an aggressive stance from the 'little lady'. Sorry, guys, but the stereotype still exists in the boardroom. It's her stance that has alienated sponsors,not her genes... Pax Vobiscum Saint-Just X __________________ I have sent the most relevant posts you made about Paula Creamer to her lawyers. Hope they take action against your statements - Elf

07-09-2009, 12:33 PM	#9
MarinePaul Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 8,002	Originally Posted by heddwyn When, exactly, would have been a good time for all this to blow up? That's really the question. Should they wait until all of the sponsors bail before bringing it up? Mann and Suggs are no longer active players and aren't effected by the current loss of tournaments. I'm not sure what the answer to the current situation is, but I'm sure it's not Bivens. Apparently, so are today's players. __________________ Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have.

07-09-2009, 12:49 PM	#10
ajraymond Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 656	Back from vacation to see this blow right up! It doesn't matter if Bivens was man or woman, black blue white or yellow........ she did a terrible job. Carol Mann is talking about tough economic times but it was Bivens who was unwilling to take a haircut on purses......... not the players. The players were seeing the writing on the wall......... not Bivens. Maybe in retrospect it was a great decision to bring this out at the U.S Open. It is the biggest most televised event in their season. They could expose Bivens who was willing to fight to the bitter end it appears until she was offered a buyout. Great job from the players. I see nothing but positive that can come from this. Hopefully these small tournaments can retain or even get their stops back. Nancy Lopez as the face with intelligent business minds and marketers for commish!!! Last edited by ajraymond; 07-09-2009 at 07:43 PM.

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