What if there were no golf tours reserved for females?

4putt · 05-23-2006, 10:19 AM

My first post here. This is one of the best forums I've found...

I voted for the LPGA since at this point in time, it would benefit MW more to get some of her critics off her back, e.g. those like Cambell and all MW critics that love to point out the goose egg. It would also lend credibility to her results in forays in men's events.

Regardless of whether MW "knows" how to win or whether she deserves the hype, I think it's special that we're getting to watch her learn the game. IF she really is all she's hyped up to be and will eventually win countless majors on the LPGA, it'd be pretty cool to say you saw it all happen from the beginning... I wish I had the chance to see Tiger develop into the player he is.

viperr68 · 05-23-2006, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by 4putt

My first post here. This is one of the best forums I've found...

I voted for the LPGA since at this point in time, it would benefit MW more to get some of her critics off her back, e.g. those like Cambell and all MW critics that love to point out the goose egg. It would also lend credibility to her results in forays in men's events.

.

4putt,

Welcome.

If Michelle wants to get critics off her back, especially critics of her adventures against men, what better way to do it than actually earning her way into a US Open?

PW · 05-23-2006, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by gxer

The word "men" was removed in the mid 1950's, I think after Babe had died of cancer, because by that time the USGA was convinced that since there was an LPGA tour and a women's US Open, under control of the USGA, that it was not necessary to have the word "men" in the application as women were not going to enter the US Open anyway. So the USGA removed the word "men" from the application without any fanfare.

That doesn't make sense. You don't do something just because you can get away with it, there has to be another reason. Perhaps they realized they couldn't call themselves the best in the world if they arbitrarilly excluded 50% of the population.

The whole equity argument that you, Van der Velde and others make always struck me as phony. If the concern is that it's unfair to men that women are allowed to play in more tournaments, why aren't you also upset that men under 50 can't play in champion tournaments? Also, if you are so worried about fairness, why aren't you upset that LPGA purses are a fraction of the size of PGA tournaments. You only seem to think it's unfair when it concerns women playing in "men's" events.

Blue · 05-23-2006, 11:51 AM

The quesiton asked specifically about "Team Wie," not about "Michelle Wie." I think qualifying for the US Open is much more important for Team Wie, which includes agents, lawyers and other types that care a great deal about pleasing sponsors and making more money and marketing Michelle. Playing in the US Open will be bigger for the marketing of the Michelle than winning the LPGA Championship. While winning the LPGA Championship gets the "no wins" monkey off her back and at a major to boot, just playing in the US Open puts her on the stage at arguablly the biggest and most-watched golf tournament in the world. She'd be in the same field as Tiger Woods. The media would go crazy. Even casual sports and golf fans know about the US Open. Most casual sports fans are unawared that Michelle Wie has not won any tournaments and don't watch women's golf.

Regarding which Michelle herself cares more about, I don't really know, but I imagine she'd be pretty happy with either.

05-23-2006, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Blue

Most casual sports fans are unawared that Michelle Wie has not won any professional tournaments and don't watch women's golf.

That's pretty typical of you, I must say.

4putt · 05-23-2006, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Blue

The quesiton asked specifically about "Team Wie," not about "Michelle Wie." I think qualifying for the US Open is much more important for Team Wie, which includes agents, lawyers and other types that care a great deal about pleasing sponsors and making more money and marketing Michelle. Playing in the US Open will be bigger for the marketing of the Michelle than winning the LPGA Championship. While winning the LPGA Championship gets the "no wins" monkey off her back and at a major to boot, just playing in the US Open puts her on the stage at arguablly the biggest and most-watched golf tournament in the world. She'd be in the same field as Tiger Woods. The media would go crazy. Even casual sports and golf fans know about the US Open. Most casual sports fans are unawared that Michelle Wie has not won any tournaments and don't watch women's golf.

Regarding which Michelle herself cares more about, I don't really know, but I imagine she'd be pretty happy with either.

Good points. I agree playing in the US Open with Tiger in the field would be crazy! It would be historic. I definitely would watch. BUT...

The biggest rub against Wie is that she hasn't learned how to close the deal - to win. There's always a "BUT" when people talk about her. She's so talented, BUT.... She's got so much potential, BUT....She's ranked 2nd in the world, BUT....She finished 3rd at Kraft, BUT....She made the cut against men, BUT....SHE'S NEVER WON.

Playing in the US Open would be awsome. Making the cut would be crazy. BUT, it's only a cut. They'll aruge, anyone (insert Annika's name here) could make the field and even make the cut, only if they really wanted to (a la Pressel). They just don't choose to. Winning is the endgame. That's what it's all about. Winning a major would go a long way in her getting some respect from other pros, both on the LPGA and PGA. Real respect, not the "wow, she's so talented, and has so much potential, and she's ONLY 16!!" kind of praise.

As far as what "team wie" as opposed to Wie herself wants, I would expect Nike and Sony would love it if she won. They would finally have something to hang their hat on and make that commercial they've been holding off on. Marketing wise, remember Sharapova? She was pretty big before Wimbledon, but she's been HUGE since that win.

Cheers.

wiefan · 05-23-2006, 02:08 PM

Hi ya 4putt....welcome to this site....you are CORRECT....this is one of the best forums around....a lot of different viewpoints, opinions and food for thoughts....and the best part is that "MOST" of the posters are civil in their responses....not like the Golf Channel one....however, the golf channel DB is kinda interesting at times

anyway....enjoy your stay on this site...lots of knowledgeable people to converse with....anyway....since I am NOT one of the knowledgeable ones....I will bid you adieu and not waste your viewing pleasure.....have a good day.....see ya!!

Blue · 05-23-2006, 02:11 PM

hostile_rocket, If you use the quote feature, please have some respect and don't alter the original poster's quote.

Blue · 05-23-2006, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by 4putt

... Playing in the US Open would be awsome. Making the cut would be crazy. BUT, it's only a cut. They'll aruge, anyone (insert Annika's name here) could make the field and even make the cut, only if they really wanted to (a la Pressel). They just don't choose to. Winning is the endgame. That's what it's all about. Winning a major would go a long way in her getting some respect from other pros, both on the LPGA and PGA. Real respect, not the "wow, she's so talented, and has so much potential, and she's ONLY 16!!" kind of praise.

As far as what "team wie" as opposed to Wie herself wants, I would expect Nike and Sony would love it if she won. They would finally have something to hang their hat on and make that commercial they've been holding off on. Marketing wise, remember Sharapova? She was pretty big before Wimbledon, but she's been HUGE since that win.

Which do you think would be a bigger commercial for Nike, Wie teeing it up against the men at Winged Foot or winning the LPGA Championship? I think her appeal all along has been playing with the men, so I think teeing it up at Winged Foot, even though she has little chance cf making the cut there, would be huge. The LPGA, major or not, win or not, is just not on people's radar screens.

viperr68 · 05-23-2006, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by PW

That doesn't make sense. You don't do something just because you can get away with it, there has to be another reason. .

The USGA didn't want Babe in the 1948 US Open so the application was changed with the word "men" added but the name of the event stayed the same, the US Open.
They got away with it didn't they, of course they did, and the reason for the change was that the USGA didn't want Babe and her publicity stunts to be part of the US Open.

Now jump forward a few years to the mid 1950's after the creation of the LPGA tour and the women's US Open (now under the control of the USGA).

If you think for one minute that the word "men" was removed in the mid 1950's, without publicity by the way, so that women would now enter the US Open you would be barking up the wrong tree. After all, women had their own professional golf tour and they had their own women's US Open.

The USGA had every reason to believe that there would not be another "Babe" bringing their publicity stunts to the US Open.

They were wrong of course as the new "Babe", The Big Wiesy and her Wie Team in cahoots with the media is a "Babe publicity stunt" multiplied by a factor of 100!

05-23-2006, 11:11 AM	#22
viperr68 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cookeville TN Posts: 1	Originally Posted by 4putt My first post here. This is one of the best forums I've found... I voted for the LPGA since at this point in time, it would benefit MW more to get some of her critics off her back, e.g. those like Cambell and all MW critics that love to point out the goose egg. It would also lend credibility to her results in forays in men's events. . 4putt, Welcome. If Michelle wants to get critics off her back, especially critics of her adventures against men, what better way to do it than actually earning her way into a US Open?

05-23-2006, 11:18 AM	#23
PW Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 926	Originally Posted by gxer The word "men" was removed in the mid 1950's, I think after Babe had died of cancer, because by that time the USGA was convinced that since there was an LPGA tour and a women's US Open, under control of the USGA, that it was not necessary to have the word "men" in the application as women were not going to enter the US Open anyway. So the USGA removed the word "men" from the application without any fanfare. That doesn't make sense. You don't do something just because you can get away with it, there has to be another reason. Perhaps they realized they couldn't call themselves the best in the world if they arbitrarilly excluded 50% of the population. The whole equity argument that you, Van der Velde and others make always struck me as phony. If the concern is that it's unfair to men that women are allowed to play in more tournaments, why aren't you also upset that men under 50 can't play in champion tournaments? Also, if you are so worried about fairness, why aren't you upset that LPGA purses are a fraction of the size of PGA tournaments. You only seem to think it's unfair when it concerns women playing in "men's" events.

05-23-2006, 12:46 PM	#25
Guest Posts: n/a	Originally Posted by Blue Most casual sports fans are unawared that Michelle Wie has not won any professional tournaments and don't watch women's golf. That's pretty typical of you, I must say.

05-23-2006, 01:44 PM	#26
4putt Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 428	Originally Posted by Blue The quesiton asked specifically about "Team Wie," not about "Michelle Wie." I think qualifying for the US Open is much more important for Team Wie, which includes agents, lawyers and other types that care a great deal about pleasing sponsors and making more money and marketing Michelle. Playing in the US Open will be bigger for the marketing of the Michelle than winning the LPGA Championship. While winning the LPGA Championship gets the "no wins" monkey off her back and at a major to boot, just playing in the US Open puts her on the stage at arguablly the biggest and most-watched golf tournament in the world. She'd be in the same field as Tiger Woods. The media would go crazy. Even casual sports and golf fans know about the US Open. Most casual sports fans are unawared that Michelle Wie has not won any tournaments and don't watch women's golf. Regarding which Michelle herself cares more about, I don't really know, but I imagine she'd be pretty happy with either. Good points. I agree playing in the US Open with Tiger in the field would be crazy! It would be historic. I definitely would watch. BUT... The biggest rub against Wie is that she hasn't learned how to close the deal - to win. There's always a "BUT" when people talk about her. She's so talented, BUT.... She's got so much potential, BUT....She's ranked 2nd in the world, BUT....She finished 3rd at Kraft, BUT....She made the cut against men, BUT....SHE'S NEVER WON. Playing in the US Open would be awsome. Making the cut would be crazy. BUT, it's only a cut. They'll aruge, anyone (insert Annika's name here) could make the field and even make the cut, only if they really wanted to (a la Pressel). They just don't choose to. Winning is the endgame. That's what it's all about. Winning a major would go a long way in her getting some respect from other pros, both on the LPGA and PGA. Real respect, not the "wow, she's so talented, and has so much potential, and she's ONLY 16!!" kind of praise. As far as what "team wie" as opposed to Wie herself wants, I would expect Nike and Sony would love it if she won. They would finally have something to hang their hat on and make that commercial they've been holding off on. Marketing wise, remember Sharapova? She was pretty big before Wimbledon, but she's been HUGE since that win. Cheers.

05-23-2006, 02:17 PM	#29
Blue Forum Moderator Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2009. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,650 Images: 6	Originally Posted by 4putt ... Playing in the US Open would be awsome. Making the cut would be crazy. BUT, it's only a cut. They'll aruge, anyone (insert Annika's name here) could make the field and even make the cut, only if they really wanted to (a la Pressel). They just don't choose to. Winning is the endgame. That's what it's all about. Winning a major would go a long way in her getting some respect from other pros, both on the LPGA and PGA. Real respect, not the "wow, she's so talented, and has so much potential, and she's ONLY 16!!" kind of praise. As far as what "team wie" as opposed to Wie herself wants, I would expect Nike and Sony would love it if she won. They would finally have something to hang their hat on and make that commercial they've been holding off on. Marketing wise, remember Sharapova? She was pretty big before Wimbledon, but she's been HUGE since that win. Which do you think would be a bigger commercial for Nike, Wie teeing it up against the men at Winged Foot or winning the LPGA Championship? I think her appeal all along has been playing with the men, so I think teeing it up at Winged Foot, even though she has little chance cf making the cut there, would be huge. The LPGA, major or not, win or not, is just not on people's radar screens.

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05-23-2006, 10:19 AM	#21
4putt Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 428	My first post here. This is one of the best forums I've found... I voted for the LPGA since at this point in time, it would benefit MW more to get some of her critics off her back, e.g. those like Cambell and all MW critics that love to point out the goose egg. It would also lend credibility to her results in forays in men's events. Regardless of whether MW "knows" how to win or whether she deserves the hype, I think it's special that we're getting to watch her learn the game. IF she really is all she's hyped up to be and will eventually win countless majors on the LPGA, it'd be pretty cool to say you saw it all happen from the beginning... I wish I had the chance to see Tiger develop into the player he is.

05-23-2006, 11:51 AM	#24
Blue Forum Moderator Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2009. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,650 Images: 6	The quesiton asked specifically about "Team Wie," not about "Michelle Wie." I think qualifying for the US Open is much more important for Team Wie, which includes agents, lawyers and other types that care a great deal about pleasing sponsors and making more money and marketing Michelle. Playing in the US Open will be bigger for the marketing of the Michelle than winning the LPGA Championship. While winning the LPGA Championship gets the "no wins" monkey off her back and at a major to boot, just playing in the US Open puts her on the stage at arguablly the biggest and most-watched golf tournament in the world. She'd be in the same field as Tiger Woods. The media would go crazy. Even casual sports and golf fans know about the US Open. Most casual sports fans are unawared that Michelle Wie has not won any tournaments and don't watch women's golf. Regarding which Michelle herself cares more about, I don't really know, but I imagine she'd be pretty happy with either.

05-23-2006, 02:08 PM	#27
wiefan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,135	Hi ya 4putt....welcome to this site....you are CORRECT....this is one of the best forums around....a lot of different viewpoints, opinions and food for thoughts....and the best part is that "MOST" of the posters are civil in their responses....not like the Golf Channel one....however, the golf channel DB is kinda interesting at times anyway....enjoy your stay on this site...lots of knowledgeable people to converse with....anyway....since I am NOT one of the knowledgeable ones....I will bid you adieu and not waste your viewing pleasure.....have a good day.....see ya!!

05-23-2006, 02:11 PM	#28
Blue Forum Moderator Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2009. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,650 Images: 6	hostile_rocket, If you use the quote feature, please have some respect and don't alter the original poster's quote.

05-23-2006, 02:24 PM	#30
viperr68 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cookeville TN Posts: 1	Originally Posted by PW That doesn't make sense. You don't do something just because you can get away with it, there has to be another reason. . The USGA didn't want Babe in the 1948 US Open so the application was changed with the word "men" added but the name of the event stayed the same, the US Open. They got away with it didn't they, of course they did, and the reason for the change was that the USGA didn't want Babe and her publicity stunts to be part of the US Open. Now jump forward a few years to the mid 1950's after the creation of the LPGA tour and the women's US Open (now under the control of the USGA). If you think for one minute that the word "men" was removed in the mid 1950's, without publicity by the way, so that women would now enter the US Open you would be barking up the wrong tree. After all, women had their own professional golf tour and they had their own women's US Open. The USGA had every reason to believe that there would not be another "Babe" bringing their publicity stunts to the US Open. They were wrong of course as the new "Babe", The Big Wiesy and her Wie Team in cahoots with the media is a "Babe publicity stunt" multiplied by a factor of 100!

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