TV Viewers and Rules

[LoJo]

Thanks Buzzer. Good find.

(Bamberger is still an idiot.) haha

[Buzzer]

I don't think the head hancho at the USGA could make it any clearer than Lojo has.....

Like Heddwyn, I personally find it annoying that a phone call was needed, BUT, the fact of the matter is that a rule was abrogated; ergo, it must be dealt with properly....and it was.

Great post Lojo....

Viva Annika

[xman5]

Yes and Yes

[gxer]

Yes, a rule was broken but IMO the rule itself, naming a "donut" as a banned training device is stupid and needs to be changed in the future.

For now, yep, Juli needs to be put before a firing squad and eliminated from the human race for such a disgraceful act as using a "donut" to warm up her swing, I mean, where did she think she was, on deck, in a baseball game?

[Whistling Straight]

All bring valid points to the issue. My assumption is there's no written rule regarding someone calling in an infraction but rather there's a "procedure". I guess that was key to my thoughts. I incorrectly worded that a viewer determines a rules infraction, which obviously is not right. It also looks like many of you have brought up valid instances of viewers calling infractions on players with the determining factor being that rulings are not instantly issued...and can be done hours after the event. I still find this unique to any other sporting event. I believe in other sports teams can "protest" their game but this is done immediately, or just after the event concludes, and the determination is made by a commissioner sometimes a week or two afterwards. Because it appears no other sports allows their fans to point out rules infractions (is this right?), impacting the outcome, it sure would be interesting to learn how the LPGA broadly considers "viewers" observing and reporting an infraction. Maybe you all are shouting the answer at me but it all seems unofficial and speculative rather than a procedure, practice, or rule, that is written allowing for spectators/viewers to report an infraction.
Thanks for your responses and your patience with me. Maybe I'll see the light when I hear it explained the tenth time!

[gxer]

WS,

Some of this TV viewer call-in nonsense can be traced back to a PR move by former PGA TOUR commissioner Deane Beman regarding the disqualification of golfer Paul Azinger in 1991.
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SPORTS PEOPLE
SPORTS PEOPLE; Monitor of Greens
Published: March 10, 1991
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The commissioner of the PGA Tour has taken steps to remove some of the pressure on the tour's multimillion-member rules committee.

From now on, according to the commissioner, Deane Beman, a rules official will be assigned to monitor the television broadcasts of tour events in an effort to spot any infractions that might not be caught by officials on the course but are virtually sure to be seen -- and acted on -- by viewers at home.

The action comes a week after Paul Azinger was disqualified from the Doral Open after a television viewer called in to report a rules violation by Azinger. The infraction itself, moving some loose stones before a shot near a water hazard, would have normally drawn no more than a two-stroke penalty. But because it was not until the next day that PGA officials were able to follow up the viewer's tip and verify that an infraction had occurred, Azinger had to be disqualified for having signed an improper score card, one not reflecting the penalty that should have been imposed had officials known about the infraction.

In theory at least, the official monitoring the broadcast will be able to spot any otherwise overlooked infractions and act on them in time to prevent a later disqualification, but that does not mean that viewers won't continue to be the enforcers of last resort. (AP)


SPORTS PEOPLE - SPORTS PEOPLE - Monitor of Greens - NYTimes.com

[Buzzer]

I believe the reason you find "this unique to any other sporting event" is, no doubt, because the sport, itself, is unique.
Almost all, if not all, other sports are team sports and are played with officials in attendance. That, in itself, takes the audience out of the equation.....except for those who disagree with a call, of course.
I would aver that the callers might be among those of us who have been exposed to the mulligans, foot wedges, hand mashies and winter rules so prevelant in the golf and country clubs, and take the game as seriously as it's meant to be.
Isn't it strange that no rules have been determined to be unfair, dumb, no reason for, etc., until some poor pro golfer unwittingly abrogates it. And if you check back on all of these cases you will find that the perpetrator readily admits that they were unaware of such rule.
As the little boy in the First Tee commercial says:"...and you gotta know how to add"......to which I will add....and you gotta know how to read. Amen

Viva Annika

[gxer]

Originally Posted by Buzzer

Isn't it strange that no rules have been determined to be unfair, dumb, no reason for, etc., until some poor pro golfer unwittingly abrogates it.

Viva Annika

I will simply say this to you. Wind causes golf ball to move on green.

Now, you tell me how this is fair.

If the wind causes a ball, that had came to rest, marked by a player with a coin, lifted cleaned and then replaced on the green, to roll off the green into a hazard, the player must proceed under the hazard rule and cannot replace the ball where it first came to rest on the green.

Conversely, same situation, but this time the wind blows the ball into the hole. In that case, the player is deemed to have holed out with his previous shot whatever it was. He could have been on a par 3 in one, wind blows his ball into the hole, it then becomes a "God" given ace.

I won't even talk about wind moving the golf ball and the grounding or not grounding of a putter, that one is just too stupid to talk about.

IMO, the rule on wind moving a golf ball on THE GREEN is long overdue for a change but the stuck-in-the-mud control freaks act like they would rather die than change the rule on the wind's affect on a golf ball at rest on greens.
They truly must believe that somehow or other, God caused the wind to blow that ball wherever it ended up and by gum you can't correct God, he must know what he is doing.

[ctmurray]

Originally Posted by gxer

I will simply say this to you. Wind causes golf ball to move on green.

Now, you tell me how this is fair.

If the wind causes a ball, that had came to rest, marked by a player with a coin, lifted cleaned and then replaced on the green, to roll off the green into a hazard, the player must proceed under the hazard rule and cannot replace the ball where it first came to rest on the green.

Conversely, same situation, but this time the wind blows the ball into the hole. In that case, the player is deemed to have holed out with his previous shot whatever it was. He could have been on a par 3 in one, wind blows his ball into the hole, it then becomes a "God" given ace.

I won't even talk about wind moving the golf ball and the grounding or not grounding of a putter, that one is just too stupid to talk about.

IMO, the rule on wind moving a golf ball on THE GREEN is long overdue for a change but the stuck-in-the-mud control freaks act like they would rather die than change the rule on the wind's affect on a golf ball at rest on greens.
They truly must believe that somehow or other, God caused the wind to blow that ball wherever it ended up and by gum you can't correct God, he must know what he is doing.

I concur with this comment. The solution is to just replace the ball where it originally lie with no penalty. No advantage is gained by the player. Similar to when a ball strikes another ball on the green - you just replace to its original position. I would like to know the history of the rule, how someone could have gained an advantage without the rule.

[gxer]

Originally Posted by ctmurray

I concur with this comment. The solution is to just replace the ball where it originally lie with no penalty. No advantage is gained by the player. Similar to when a ball strikes another ball on the green - you just replace to its original position. I would like to know the history of the rule, how someone could have gained an advantage without the rule.

In the future, the wind rule will be changed but some people must die before it will be allowed to change. Who those people are I don't know, but time will take care of them, until then, we are stuck with a truly dumb-ass golf rule.