QUIZ me and/or others.....

[xman5]

Originally Posted by LoJo

Uh huh.... good replies. What about this Decision and how it might relate to the situation of my accidentally walking a magnolia leaf into the bunker? Could I then remove it?

Dec. 13-4/14 Player Accidentally Kicks Pine Cone into Bunker and Picks It Up

Q. A player’s ball went into a bunker. The player accidentally kicked a pine cone, and it rolled into the bunker. He picked up the pine cone which was not interfering with his stance or the area of his intended swing. Did he incur a penalty?

A. Yes. A pine cone is a loose impediment — see Definition of “Loose Impediments” — and may not be removed when both the impediment and the ball lie in a hazard (Rule 13-4c). By removing the pine cone from the bunker, the player incurred a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play for a breach of Rule 13-4c.

Read the decision above that one. That is more the situation. I didn't copy it though.

[DJGOLFER59]

I'm not sure either, but if the leaf is attached to your shoe it isn't a loose impediment.

[Blue]

Originally Posted by LoJo

No, Blue....You're not wiefan. I know wiefan. Wiefan is a friend of mine. Blue...you're no wiefan.

A donation to the NSMF wasn't necessary because the leaf was already dead. However, I could have contributed to the upkeep of their Memorial Compost Pile.

My Wiefan impression falling flat, is it?

[LoJo]

Originally Posted by xman5

Read the decision above that one. That is more the situation. I didn't copy it though.

Yeah, Xman...that Decision could be come into play in this situation too. I'll copy it here .... Dec. 13.5

13-4/13.5 Player Moves Loose Impediments When Approaching Ball in Hazard

Q. A player’s ball lies in a bunker that is covered with many loose twigs and leaves. In approaching the ball and taking his stance, the player touches and moves loose impediments with his feet. Does he incur a penalty?

A. There is no penalty provided the lie of the ball or area of intended stance or swing is not improved.

However, the large leaf was not "IN" the bunker until I took it in there on my shoe. I think it's pretty clear that if one went into a bunker and stepped on leaves or twigs that were already IN the bunker, it would not be a penalty unless doing so improved lie, stance, etc.

[LoJo]

Originally Posted by DJGOLFER59

I'm not sure either, but if the leaf is attached to your shoe it isn't a loose impediment.

You're onto something there DJ!!

I'm going to give you the USGA response to the issue later on. Still gotta wait for Rules Guru wiefan to get home from work! Or...is he off playing poker on some cruise ship?

[LoJo]

Originally Posted by Blue

My Wiefan impression falling flat, is it?

Good attempt, but not close to the real deal.

[Blue]

Originally Posted by LoJo

Good attempt, but not close to the real deal.

All I can hope for is a good attempt like what El Hombre Araña will be giving us tomorrow!

[LoJo]

Originally Posted by Blue

All I can hope for is a good attempt like what El Hombre Araña will be giving us tomorrow!

Mmmm...do they allow those sorts of antics at Augusta National? Very stuffy there...Hombre Araña impressions would likely be met with

[wiefan]

Hi ya folks....whew...I made it in time....Lojo thanks for the question and also for WAITING for me to come home from work

ok folks....here is my answer....since the leaf was NOT a loose impediment that was already in the bunker....I would have done what Buzzer suggested

without making my stance I would walk out of the Bunker and then remove the leaf...since the leaf wasn't in the bunker in the first place...there would be no penalty...my removing the leaf OUTSIDE of the bunker would not be a Penalty either...since it is similiar to grass being on your pants and you are just dusting it off...this is what I would do

however the question posed is if you make a stance with the imbedded Leaf....YES...you incur a penalty should your cleated Leaf shoe make a STANCE...you are improving your stance, just like Craig Stadler did with the towel under his knees....he brought in the towel, just like you are bringing in a Leaf

lojo....you were correct to make your stance without digging your leaf foot in the sand....I am sure you just stepped on it...just like you can step on loose impediments that are already in the Bunker....providing they are not interfereing with your lie or your ball flight

so my answer is that if you do not walk out of the bunker with the loose impediment, you would have to make sure that you do NOT create a stance with the IMBEDDED impediment....sort of like what Esther Choe did at the USGA event...in her case she took off the loose impediment with her hand and then Replaced it...this was the reason for her penalty of improving her stance...I would guess that if she left it stuck to her cleats it would have made her uncomfortable in her stance...but then she would not have incurred a penalty....if she stepped away from her shot and the took the loose divot off and NOT replaced it with her hand...she would NOT have incurred a penalty...which is the same thing for Lojo to do....Step out of the bunker and remove the loose leaf...then proceed to play your shot

god !!.....I feel like I have NAILED this answer...it sounds so so super dooper logical when I think of other Players having penalty issues that might be somewhat similiar....here is what I think about Rules of Golf....the basically follow the same rule of logic...sort of like no matter what you do after you hit your ball....anytime the ball is BACK in Play...this means a sort of continuance of your hole...drops, OB's, Water hazard....it doesn't matter....once your ball is BACK in PLAY...it means "BACK IN PLAY"...you just gotta play it as it is

whew....god I am loving this thread....I think BUZZER is correct

anyway...folks....my daughter want to use the computer...so I will end this essay and wait for my GRADE...see ya folks....have a good day....see ya!!

[greentee]

.
Golf.... its still Rocket Science.... which is after all logic to the extreme. Case closed.... just kidding. :)

The big leaf... brought into the bunker is bringing in a foreign matter, using it in stance improves it, penalty. Not using it as stance in the bunker, not improving stance and no penalty.

Outside of removing the leaf before entering the bunker, LoJo did the right thing by not using it to improve stance.... errr.... now I am getting confused. I stand by my first statement, Golf is Rocket Science.

WieFan your theory of a ball always in play from tee to hole.... I wonder is there is some loop-hole in it. As cleaning the ball, is it not out of play until returned to its coined spot? Feels like there is a hole or two in your logic somewheres. :-)