Michelle Wie in training for politics.

gxer · 09-01-2010, 04:37 PM

xman,

That's the old balance routine again and the rules official said she didn't lose her balance.

I have to laugh, there is actually a definition of when touching the grass is consider grounding.

Try this one on for size.
----------------------------------
13-4/8 When Club Touches Ground in Grass in Water Hazard
Q. If a player's ball lies in a water hazard, when is his club in tall grass considered to be touching the ground in the water hazard, in breach of Rule 13-4b?

A. When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club (i.e., when the club is grounded).
-----------------------------------------------
HUH? I don't know how to determine that? Let's say you touch the grass with the club and the grass gives a little as grass tends to do, that doesn't mean that it won't bend more and if it will bend more then I would say the grass as bent in the first place is not bent enough to support the club because the grass would bend more.

PS: For anyone else who happens to read this post I am talking about touching the grass inadvertently such as Wiesy did, I am not talking about taking a stance and playing a shot, for example, from the rough.

LoJo · 09-01-2010, 05:22 PM

If you don't understand the difference between touching the grass and compressing it to the point that it supports weight, then perhaps you should refrain from trying to debate the Rules.

Do you play golf at all? Just wondered.

LoJo · 09-01-2010, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by gxer

I wish I could cuss on this board. Damn it Lojo, wake up, I am not talking about addressing the GD golf ball getting ready to hit a shot, I am talking about touching the GD grass inadvertently with a golf club in the hazard as Wiesy did.

The rule says "support the weight of the club". It does not say supports weight.
Hell, you could define weight as a picogram if you wanted to but that isn't what the rule says.

And YES, I play golf, Lojo.

I'm well aware of what the Rule says, gxer. I thought I was clear about that in post #10 when replying to YOUR question.

Wie did not just inadvertantly "touch" the grass in the hazard. She clearly...and inadvertantly...grounded her club in the hazard. You know that, I know that, and she knows it too. (Though she was pleading that she was off balance.)

Maybe this will help you figure it out..... Let's say that in the hazard where Wie was standing, the grass was really long...like up to her knees. And, while she was in the hazard, she merely "touched" the grass with her club. That would not be a penalty under R. 13-4.

But...she didn't do that. She 'grounded' her club....i.e., "touched" the grass to the point of compressing it! Hell, she pushed the weight of her body on the club on the grass, not just the weight of the club!

Anyhow...think what you wish. I don't know why you're trying to revisit what was clearly a violation of the Rules for which Wie was penalized correctly.

gxer · 09-01-2010, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by xman5

If she has any case she can argue under this ruling.

13-4/3.5 Player Uses Cane or Club to Enter or Leave Hazard When Ball Lies in Hazard

Here's what hard for me to believe. I am actually taking Wiesy's side on this issue and I don't even like the girl, never have and more than likely never will although one should probably never say never.

gxer · 09-01-2010, 06:21 PM

Speaking of rules, Larry of Life on Tour, thinks he may be done as a caddy on the LPGA tour.
----------------
Looks like I really stepped in it this time but I just had enough. The spreading cancer had to be addressed. The players can’t openly do it. Just like all sports organizations, there is an ethics code that must be followed and that is very understandable. Open criticism of the organization and members isn’t allowed. The owner of the Cavs was a prime example with the LeBron James fiasco.

Lets get back to the current situation. Of course, I’m the one that’s vilified. Isn’t that what happens to all whistle blowers. No matter in business or government, he or she is labeled as a disgruntled employee with an axe to grind or in my case, a bigoted, racist drunk (yeah, that last one was thrown into the mix). But the fact is, it’s tearing me up to see what’s happening out here. Someone had to come forward. Looks like I will be the sacrificial lamb. Right now I’m radioactive. Doubt if I’ll be getting a bag anytime soon. A small price to pay for the truth.

Blog Life on Tour

xman5 · 09-01-2010, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by gxer

Here's what hard for me to believe. I am actually taking Wiesy's side on this issue and I don't even like the girl, never have and more than likely never will although one should probably never say never.

I like the girl and think she was wrong, but she new the rule and was right in trying to argue the point, but deserved the penalty..

cleo · 09-01-2010, 07:24 PM

truth is a narrow,winding and lonely road, compromise is an interstate highway.

Saint-Just X · 09-01-2010, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by gxer

Speaking of rules, Larry of Life on Tour, thinks he may be done as a caddy on the LPGA tour.
----------------
Looks like I really stepped in it this time but I just had enough. The spreading cancer had to be addressed. The players can’t openly do it. Just like all sports organizations, there is an ethics code that must be followed and that is very understandable. Open criticism of the organization and members isn’t allowed. The owner of the Cavs was a prime example with the LeBron James fiasco.

Lets get back to the current situation. Of course, I’m the one that’s vilified. Isn’t that what happens to all whistle blowers. No matter in business or government, he or she is labeled as a disgruntled employee with an axe to grind or in my case, a bigoted, racist drunk (yeah, that last one was thrown into the mix). But the fact is, it’s tearing me up to see what’s happening out here. Someone had to come forward. Looks like I will be the sacrificial lamb. Right now I’m radioactive. Doubt if I’ll be getting a bag anytime soon. A small price to pay for the truth.

Blog Life on Tour

Do you think the stigmata cause him discomfort when he's writing his blog ?...

Pax Vobiscum
Saint-Just X

gxer · 09-01-2010, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by xman5

I like the girl and think she was wrong, but she new the rule and was right in trying to argue the point, but deserved the penalty..

OK, I give up, hang her, it was awful what she did and she must have gained a ton of information by touching that thick grass with her club, that helped her hit the next shot.

ctmurray · 09-01-2010, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by xman5

I like the girl and think she was wrong, but she new the rule and was right in trying to argue the point, but deserved the penalty..

I agree. They needed to talk with her and give her. She got the opportunity to state her side of the event and then also be told in detail about the penalty that was being applied (so she could sign her card with the corrected score and not be DQed). There could have been some mitigating circumstance ( a bee stung her hand holding the club or something) that the video did not show. But in the end I thought the penalty applied to this situation. I happen to think this is somewhat of a silly rule, or too broadly defined in some manner, but you have to stop players from taking practice strokes in hazards and I don't yet have a better way to set up the rule.

09-01-2010, 04:37 PM	#11
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	xman, That's the old balance routine again and the rules official said she didn't lose her balance. I have to laugh, there is actually a definition of when touching the grass is consider grounding. Try this one on for size. ---------------------------------- 13-4/8 When Club Touches Ground in Grass in Water Hazard Q. If a player's ball lies in a water hazard, when is his club in tall grass considered to be touching the ground in the water hazard, in breach of Rule 13-4b? A. When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club (i.e., when the club is grounded). ----------------------------------------------- HUH? I don't know how to determine that? Let's say you touch the grass with the club and the grass gives a little as grass tends to do, that doesn't mean that it won't bend more and if it will bend more then I would say the grass as bent in the first place is not bent enough to support the club because the grass would bend more. PS: For anyone else who happens to read this post I am talking about touching the grass inadvertently such as Wiesy did, I am not talking about taking a stance and playing a shot, for example, from the rough. __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270* Last edited by gxer; 09-01-2010 at 06:07 PM.

09-01-2010, 06:08 PM	#13
LoJo Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Golf Course Posts: 2,217 Images: 1	Originally Posted by gxer I wish I could cuss on this board. Damn it Lojo, wake up, I am not talking about addressing the GD golf ball getting ready to hit a shot, I am talking about touching the GD grass inadvertently with a golf club in the hazard as Wiesy did. The rule says "support the weight of the club". It does not say supports weight. Hell, you could define weight as a picogram if you wanted to but that isn't what the rule says. And YES, I play golf, Lojo. I'm well aware of what the Rule says, gxer. I thought I was clear about that in post #10 when replying to YOUR question. Wie did not just inadvertantly "touch" the grass in the hazard. She clearly...and inadvertantly...grounded her club in the hazard. You know that, I know that, and she knows it too. (Though she was pleading that she was off balance.) Maybe this will help you figure it out..... Let's say that in the hazard where Wie was standing, the grass was really long...like up to her knees. And, while she was in the hazard, she merely "touched" the grass with her club. That would not be a penalty under R. 13-4. But...she didn't do that. She 'grounded' her club....i.e., "touched" the grass to the point of compressing it! Hell, she pushed the weight of her body on the club on the grass, not just the weight of the club! Anyhow...think what you wish. I don't know why you're trying to revisit what was clearly a violation of the Rules for which Wie was penalized correctly.

09-01-2010, 06:17 PM	#14
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Originally Posted by xman5 If she has any case she can argue under this ruling. 13-4/3.5 Player Uses Cane or Club to Enter or Leave Hazard When Ball Lies in Hazard Here's what hard for me to believe. I am actually taking Wiesy's side on this issue and I don't even like the girl, never have and more than likely never will although one should probably never say never. __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

09-01-2010, 06:21 PM	#15
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Speaking of rules, Larry of Life on Tour, thinks he may be done as a caddy on the LPGA tour. ---------------- Looks like I really stepped in it this time but I just had enough. The spreading cancer had to be addressed. The players can’t openly do it. Just like all sports organizations, there is an ethics code that must be followed and that is very understandable. Open criticism of the organization and members isn’t allowed. The owner of the Cavs was a prime example with the LeBron James fiasco. Lets get back to the current situation. Of course, I’m the one that’s vilified. Isn’t that what happens to all whistle blowers. No matter in business or government, he or she is labeled as a disgruntled employee with an axe to grind or in my case, a bigoted, racist drunk (yeah, that last one was thrown into the mix). But the fact is, it’s tearing me up to see what’s happening out here. Someone had to come forward. Looks like I will be the sacrificial lamb. Right now I’m radioactive. Doubt if I’ll be getting a bag anytime soon. A small price to pay for the truth. Blog Life on Tour __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

09-01-2010, 07:19 PM	#16
xman5 Contest Statistician Join Date: May 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 3,904	Originally Posted by gxer Here's what hard for me to believe. I am actually taking Wiesy's side on this issue and I don't even like the girl, never have and more than likely never will although one should probably never say never. I like the girl and think she was wrong, but she new the rule and was right in trying to argue the point, but deserved the penalty..

09-01-2010, 05:22 PM	#12
LoJo Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Golf Course Posts: 2,217 Images: 1	If you don't understand the difference between touching the grass and compressing it to the point that it supports weight, then perhaps you should refrain from trying to debate the Rules. Do you play golf at all? Just wondered.

09-01-2010, 07:24 PM	#17
cleo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: PA Posts: 1,494	truth is a narrow,winding and lonely road, compromise is an interstate highway. __________________ "There's no use arguing with a fool. He only rages and scoffs, and tempers flare."

09-01-2010, 07:25 PM	#18
Saint-Just X Senior Member Contests: Joint 3nd place overall winner 2010 Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,675	Originally Posted by gxer Speaking of rules, Larry of Life on Tour, thinks he may be done as a caddy on the LPGA tour. ---------------- Looks like I really stepped in it this time but I just had enough. The spreading cancer had to be addressed. The players can’t openly do it. Just like all sports organizations, there is an ethics code that must be followed and that is very understandable. Open criticism of the organization and members isn’t allowed. The owner of the Cavs was a prime example with the LeBron James fiasco. Lets get back to the current situation. Of course, I’m the one that’s vilified. Isn’t that what happens to all whistle blowers. No matter in business or government, he or she is labeled as a disgruntled employee with an axe to grind or in my case, a bigoted, racist drunk (yeah, that last one was thrown into the mix). But the fact is, it’s tearing me up to see what’s happening out here. Someone had to come forward. Looks like I will be the sacrificial lamb. Right now I’m radioactive. Doubt if I’ll be getting a bag anytime soon. A small price to pay for the truth. Blog Life on Tour Do you think the stigmata cause him discomfort when he's writing his blog ?... Pax Vobiscum Saint-Just X __________________ I have sent the most relevant posts you made about Paula Creamer to her lawyers. Hope they take action against your statements - Elf

09-01-2010, 07:31 PM	#19
gxer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,050	Originally Posted by xman5 I like the girl and think she was wrong, but she new the rule and was right in trying to argue the point, but deserved the penalty.. OK, I give up, hang her, it was awful what she did and she must have gained a ton of information by touching that thick grass with her club, that helped her hit the next shot. __________________ *My "dream" girl: LPGA seasonal tour stats <=65.50 & >=270*

09-01-2010, 07:32 PM	#20
ctmurray Donating Member Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2010. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,176	Originally Posted by xman5 I like the girl and think she was wrong, but she new the rule and was right in trying to argue the point, but deserved the penalty.. I agree. They needed to talk with her and give her. She got the opportunity to state her side of the event and then also be told in detail about the penalty that was being applied (so she could sign her card with the corrected score and not be DQed). There could have been some mitigating circumstance ( a bee stung her hand holding the club or something) that the video did not show. But in the end I thought the penalty applied to this situation. I happen to think this is somewhat of a silly rule, or too broadly defined in some manner, but you have to stop players from taking practice strokes in hazards and I don't yet have a better way to set up the rule.

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