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Old 04-22-2014, 04:57 PM   #1
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Lojo/Rules Staff/Anybody...I am confused

Hi ya Lojo, Her Bright Rules Staff and/or anyone that can help....On Thursday, at the 18th hole, I saw something that looked kinda strange to me...let me set it up so you can umderstand

Hole 18 is a par four with a huge pond fronting the 2nd approach shot...there are bunkers on the back of the green

On Thursday the projected cut line was at +4...Anna Norquist was at +5 heading into the 18th...she hit a good drive but her 2nd shot went into the back bunker form the side and didn't roll to the bottom for an easy bunker shot...anyway...she hit her 3rd shot out of the tough bunker shot and it went into the water fronting the green

anyway...here is my question...I thought she had to drop her ball from the POINT OF ENTRY into the water...no closer to the hole...everyone saw where the ball entered the water...it wasn't clear to me whether or not "she could drop it anywhere where it would NOT be closer to the hole"...with that in mind, I figured that if she had to drop, perhaps she would have to go ÖN THE OTHER SIDE of the POND to satisfy the part about no closer to the hole....I saw her discuss it with her playing partners and caddies...one of the caddies was pointing to the other side of the pond....however...Anna was kinda frustrated that she would not make the cut anyway so she called the rules official...Anna wanted to replay her shot from the bunker despite of whatever penalty strokes involved...she already knew that she wasn't going to play the weekend

anyway....the rules official came and YES...Anna did get to drop it again in the bunker

now for me that was kinda strange...but then ANOTHER thing happened that really threw me off...PRIOR to Anna dropping her ball in the bunker....she got to RAKE the BUNKER FIRST...I was thinking...Isn't this Improving the Condition of where her drop was going....I always thought that you had to play your drop into whatever the existing condition is

whew...TWO rules question in one episode....1st...Where to drop after hitting it from the back of the green into the pond fronting the green....2nd...possibility taking an unplayable after seeing the ball enter the water with possible drop options....and 3rd...improving the bunker prior to dropping the ball

so whadda ya think folks...obviously the rules official KNEW what he was doing as he allowed Anna to take a drop in the original bunker despite of the point of entry water scenario of her previous shot....and obviously the rules official thought it was OK for her to rake the bunker prior to her drop

so Rules Gurus, Lojo, her dedicated staff, and whoever might know what it was that confused me....I would surely like to know what the heck happened...by the way...Anna took an 8 on that hole....she over shot her "2nd Bunker shot" and it almost went into the water at a different place than her 1st water shot

anyway....aloha everyone...I just thought I would post something into this section of the forum to generate activity and discussion...lemme know what ya all think...see ya
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:46 PM   #2
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You left out if it was a red or yellow staked hazard. Sounds Yellow.

She can not drop on the green side of the hazard. She has to drop on the other side of the hazard keeping the line where it crossed and the pin..

She can also go back to the original spot. I assume that she went back to the original spot, the bunker. She may also rake the bunker after playing out of it and before dropping the ball.

In her opinion the better choice was the bunker.

Last edited by xman5; 04-23-2014 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:17 PM   #3
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What about Ariya in the 4th round 18 hole?
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:36 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Elf View Post
What about Ariya in the 4th round 18 hole?
Did not see the tournament.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:55 AM   #5
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The basic rule for a Water Hazard (Yellow stake) is that you have 3 options.

1) Play it in the water (unlikely)
2) Play the ball as near to the original spot as possible.
3) Drop a ball behind the hazard keeping the point last crossed between the hole and the drop point. You may go as far back as you want. The green side of the water hazard is not considered behind the water hazard even if the ball rolls from the green side into the hazard.

You are confusing it with a lateral hazard (red stake). Like a creek running along a fairway. It is not possible to drop "behind" a lateral hazard. That is where you can do the 2 club lengths, where it last crossed or on the other side at a point equidistant to the hole.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:58 AM   #6
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Good work, Xman.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:04 PM   #7
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Hi ya everyone...TERRIFFIC JOB Xman....even your instructor Lojo gave you a GOLD star

it wasn't a Lateral water as you figured out....what confused me was the allowing of the bunker being raked...it sort of like had me thinking about :improving the condition and not playing the condition as it was

but the RULES GURUS Prevail....way to go Rules Gurus....ahhh I am glad this site has this forum on rules

aloha and take care everyone...see ya

ps...Ariya was in two groups in front of Wiesy...I also didn't see what happened...too bad...she lost a lot of money on that hole...but all in all...she played pretty darn good golf....see ya
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by wiefan View Post

what confused me was the allowing of the bunker being raked...it sort of like had me thinking about :improving the condition and not playing the condition as it was
You are sort of in the right area. However, once the ball has been played and it no longer resides in the bunker the improving lie or testing the ground does not apply anymore. The bunker can then be raked and you can then make your drop.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:57 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by xman5 View Post
You are sort of in the right area. However, once the ball has been played and it no longer resides in the bunker the improving lie or testing the ground does not apply anymore. The bunker can then be raked and you can then make your drop.
Hi ya Xman...now THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE...if she was in the bunker and didn't get out, then she would not be able to rake anything until after her 2nd bunker or she gets out....now this makes sense

no wonder NO ONE on this site can beat you at Texas Holdem...you are a RULES Fanatic and READER....you have probably thought out ALL possible angles and possible scenerios in the Book of Texas Holdem....whew...if I ever go to Atlantic City to play Texas Holdem....if you are at the table, I will play Slot Machines and save my money

anyway....have a great day...see ya...last three words...go Wiesy go
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by wiefan View Post
Hi ya Xman...now THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE...if she was in the bunker and didn't get out, then she would not be able to rake anything until after her 2nd bunker or she gets out....now this makes sense

no wonder NO ONE on this site can beat you at Texas Holdem...you are a RULES Fanatic and READER....you have probably thought out ALL possible angles and possible scenerios in the Book of Texas Holdem....whew...if I ever go to Atlantic City to play Texas Holdem....if you are at the table, I will play Slot Machines and save my money

anyway....have a great day...see ya...last three words...go Wiesy go
I try to keep a correct score when I play, even though I am the only that sees it. So at one time or another I have been in every situation.

What kills me is that you will play with someone and the will take a mulligan, give themselves a tough 3 footer, improve their ball in a bunker and move the ball from a blocked tree and tell you they shot an 80. However you played by the book, skulled a drive 75 yrds, missed that 3 footer, played the fried egg in the bunker for an 87 and they tell you how much better they are then you. When in fact they probably would have shot more than you.
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