Julie Inkster related question

heddwyn · 08-23-2010, 12:33 PM

Mmm, isn't Inky a 'best player'? Surely you're not suggesting she just got caught out, X5? ;)

xman5 · 08-23-2010, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by heddwyn

Mmm, isn't Inky a 'best player'? Surely you're not suggesting she just got caught out, X5? ;)

I think that she just made a silly mistake. Without thinking about it she just took it out and did it. Just sitting around waiting she most likely just zoned out and made a mistake.

My comment in general was that the best players will use everything at there disposal to make them better. This includes knowing the rules and how to able them to help you.

As and example, when they use lift clean and place (too much in the LPGA), the first cut around the green is still considered the fairway, so you can move your ball one club length when the place it back down during LCP. In certain circumstances this can make your line better for puting. I had never known this until I had followed Annika Sorenstam for a round a watched her do this. Now I see it done all the time. That is using rules to your advantage.

As for the thing with the Glove, there are a lot of players doing it. I think Paula Creamer does it.

xman5 · 08-23-2010, 01:55 PM

Here is the one rule I do not understand. Someone please explain it to me.

If there is a spike mark in my line on the green I can not repair it. Yet if there is a ball mark or other blemish on the green I can fix ( and you should fix all ball marks to help your greens). Also use soft spikes.

I do not understand the logic.

Buzzer · 08-23-2010, 03:04 PM

How do we know (and we never will) that the caller might have been an off-duty rules official?

How do we know that the caller wasn't an on-duty rules official?

How do we know that there even was a "caller"?

Viva Annika

Blue · 08-23-2010, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Buzzer

How do we know (and we never will) that the caller might have been an off-duty rules official?

How do we know that the caller wasn't an on-duty rules official?

How do we know that there even was a "caller"?

Viva Annika

Good question. It was email not a call, but you have to wonder who would be motivated enough to track down an email and contact the LPGA in the middle of a tournament. Plus, what is the email and who answers it that quickly? Did they email the LPGA or The Golf Channel? Neither have a reputation for being very responsive to questions from the public.

NTB · 08-23-2010, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Buzzer

How do we know (and we never will) that the caller might have been an off-duty rules official?

How do we know that the caller wasn't an on-duty rules official?

How do we know that there even was a "caller"?

Viva Annika

If a tree falls in the forest etc. You are right.
We know that a tree makes a noise and we know they were notified.
Probably another player.

LoJo · 08-23-2010, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by xman5

Here is the one rule I do not understand. Someone please explain it to me.

If there is a spike mark in my line on the green I can not repair it. Yet if there is a ball mark or other blemish on the green I can fix ( and you should fix all ball marks to help your greens). Also use soft spikes.

I do not understand the logic.

We're kinda "off topic" here, but I know a lot of people don't "get" why it's ok to fix ball marks (pitch marks) and old hole plugs, but not to repair spike marks. I used to have a hard time understanding it.

By the way...you cannot fix "other blemishes" as you said, on the green. Only ball marks or old hole plugs.

And...that's really the essence of why spike marks are excluded from being fixed prior to putting. Spike marks are not always distinguishable from other irregularities or damage to the greens (also excluded from being fixed)....other "blemishes" as you said.

The USGA compares irregularities to the putting surfaces, such as spike marks, to be like divots in the fairways. And...it goes back to the principle of playing the ball as it lies and playing the course as you find it. Spike marks and fairway divots are a normal occurance in the play of the game. Rub of the green if it happens to be in your line or affecting your lie.

As regarding why ball marks are allowed to be fixed....a ball mark is something you as a player caused in your play of the hole, so you are allowed to repair the putting surface to the condition it was before your ball made a mark. Since there might be multiple ball marks on a green (from your fellow competitors, for example), it may not be clear "which" is the one YOU made, and which might have been made by someone else...so all ball marks are allowed to be repaired.

LoJo · 08-23-2010, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Blue

Good question. It was email not a call, but you have to wonder who would be motivated enough to track down an email and contact the LPGA in the middle of a tournament. Plus, what is the email and who answers it that quickly? Did they email the LPGA or The Golf Channel? Neither have a reputation for being very responsive to questions from the public.

I have mulled this over in my mind too. If I were sitting at home watching t.v. and saw an infraction of the Rules...and I were so inclined to call it in... I would have no clue who to email or what phone number to call.

It just seems like whomever this was had that info at the ready. Though, the head Rules honcho (forgot her name) for the LPGA did say they weren't notified until Inkster was on the 17th hole. That's a long time later than the 10th tee! It apparently took a long time to investigate it by looking at the video evidence. Also, the Rules official said that the emailer was credible in that they'd cited the Rule and Decision on the Rule (14-3/10). Hmmm.

As Buzzer said....what if the emailing busy-body, rat fink Rules Nazi was an off-duty Rules official? Or as also mentioned...what if the tattle-tale, creepy finger-pointing low life was a player...perhaps retired or from another tour?

This is why I don't understand all the yabbering about how calls or emails from "viewers" should not be allowed. ALL reports of Rules violations should be considered and looked at. I'm sure the Tours get loads of ridiculous 'reports' which are dismissed quickly. However, there is a precedent set (on all Tours) for the investigation of Rules infraction reports which have proven to be valid and have been acted upon after investigation.

Tens of thousands of t.v. viewers, as well as those on site, saw Inkster swinging the club w/ the artificial aid attached. How on earth could the LPGA dismiss the FACT that she was clearly in violation of the Rules as reported by the emailer? They couldn't and ....shouldn't!

wiefan · 08-23-2010, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by LoJo

I have mulled this over in my mind too. If I were sitting at home watching t.v. and saw an infraction of the Rules...and I were so inclined to call it in... I would have no clue who to email or what phone number to call.

It just seems like whomever this was had that info at the ready. Though, the head Rules honcho (forgot her name) for the LPGA did say they weren't notified until Inkster was on the 17th hole. That's a long time later than the 10th tee! It apparently took a long time to investigate it by looking at the video evidence. Also, the Rules official said that the emailer was credible in that they'd cited the Rule and Decision on the Rule (14-3/10). Hmmm.

As Buzzer said....what if the emailing busy-body, rat fink Rules Nazi was an off-duty Rules official? Or as also mentioned...what if the tattle-tale, creepy finger-pointing low life was a player...perhaps retired or from another tour?

This is why I don't understand all the yabbering about how calls or emails from "viewers" should not be allowed. ALL reports of Rules violations should be considered and looked at. I'm sure the Tours get loads of ridiculous 'reports' which are dismissed quickly. However, there is a precedent set (on all Tours) for the investigation of Rules infraction reports which have proven to be valid and have been acted upon after investigation.

Tens of thousands of t.v. viewers, as well as those on site, saw Inkster swinging the club w/ the artificial aid attached. How on earth could the LPGA dismiss the FACT that she was clearly in violation of the Rules as reported by the emailer? They couldn't and ....shouldn't!

Hi ya Lojo...I think I heard the lady say that they "made their investigation and was ready to pass judgement" while Julie was on the 17th...and with only one hole left decided to not interupt Julie from finishing, before thay actually Heard from Julie "Exactly what she did" before telling Julie that it was an infraction....I am pretty sure that this is what I heard the lady say

anyway...have a good day...see ya!!

ajraymond · 08-23-2010, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by xman5

The best players know the rules and use them to their advantage.

I once saw Ernie Els hit a ball under a little bridge crossing a creek and get a free drop because he was standing on the cart path around the bridge. I also believe he was selling the fact that he was going to hit it left handed as well. Wildest ruling I've ever seen. It was a European event and he either came first or second in that tournament. As for the spikes, remember when a rather rotund Philly Mick had that routine of circling the hole reading putts at the Masters that one year? He had steel spikes on and was leaving crop circles around the hole. I think if I'm not mistaken it almost lead to blows with Vijay who was following two groups behind. Now I don't know the exact rule, but here is a guy leaving huge spike marks around the greens with no penalty but these guys have to putt through them and take a penalty if they tap them down? Makes no sense to me but oh well.

08-23-2010, 01:50 PM	#12
xman5 Contest Statistician Join Date: May 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 3,904	Originally Posted by heddwyn Mmm, isn't Inky a 'best player'? Surely you're not suggesting she just got caught out, X5? ;) I think that she just made a silly mistake. Without thinking about it she just took it out and did it. Just sitting around waiting she most likely just zoned out and made a mistake. My comment in general was that the best players will use everything at there disposal to make them better. This includes knowing the rules and how to able them to help you. As and example, when they use lift clean and place (too much in the LPGA), the first cut around the green is still considered the fairway, so you can move your ball one club length when the place it back down during LCP. In certain circumstances this can make your line better for puting. I had never known this until I had followed Annika Sorenstam for a round a watched her do this. Now I see it done all the time. That is using rules to your advantage. As for the thing with the Glove, there are a lot of players doing it. I think Paula Creamer does it.

08-23-2010, 03:13 PM	#15
Blue Forum Moderator Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2009. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,650 Images: 6	Originally Posted by Buzzer How do we know (and we never will) that the caller might have been an off-duty rules official? How do we know that the caller wasn't an on-duty rules official? How do we know that there even was a "caller"? Viva Annika Good question. It was email not a call, but you have to wonder who would be motivated enough to track down an email and contact the LPGA in the middle of a tournament. Plus, what is the email and who answers it that quickly? Did they email the LPGA or The Golf Channel? Neither have a reputation for being very responsive to questions from the public.

08-23-2010, 03:15 PM	#16
NTB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: hot springs village arkansas Posts: 2,288 Images: 4	Originally Posted by Buzzer How do we know (and we never will) that the caller might have been an off-duty rules official? How do we know that the caller wasn't an on-duty rules official? How do we know that there even was a "caller"? Viva Annika If a tree falls in the forest etc. You are right. We know that a tree makes a noise and we know they were notified. Probably another player. __________________ God Bless America \"Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.\" - William Penn

08-23-2010, 07:31 PM	#17
LoJo Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Golf Course Posts: 2,217 Images: 1	Originally Posted by xman5 Here is the one rule I do not understand. Someone please explain it to me. If there is a spike mark in my line on the green I can not repair it. Yet if there is a ball mark or other blemish on the green I can fix ( and you should fix all ball marks to help your greens). Also use soft spikes. I do not understand the logic. We're kinda "off topic" here, but I know a lot of people don't "get" why it's ok to fix ball marks (pitch marks) and old hole plugs, but not to repair spike marks. I used to have a hard time understanding it. By the way...you cannot fix "other blemishes" as you said, on the green. Only ball marks or old hole plugs. And...that's really the essence of why spike marks are excluded from being fixed prior to putting. Spike marks are not always distinguishable from other irregularities or damage to the greens (also excluded from being fixed)....other "blemishes" as you said. The USGA compares irregularities to the putting surfaces, such as spike marks, to be like divots in the fairways. And...it goes back to the principle of playing the ball as it lies and playing the course as you find it. Spike marks and fairway divots are a normal occurance in the play of the game. Rub of the green if it happens to be in your line or affecting your lie. As regarding why ball marks are allowed to be fixed....a ball mark is something you as a player caused in your play of the hole, so you are allowed to repair the putting surface to the condition it was before your ball made a mark. Since there might be multiple ball marks on a green (from your fellow competitors, for example), it may not be clear "which" is the one YOU made, and which might have been made by someone else...so all ball marks are allowed to be repaired.

08-23-2010, 08:02 PM	#18
LoJo Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Golf Course Posts: 2,217 Images: 1	Originally Posted by Blue Good question. It was email not a call, but you have to wonder who would be motivated enough to track down an email and contact the LPGA in the middle of a tournament. Plus, what is the email and who answers it that quickly? Did they email the LPGA or The Golf Channel? Neither have a reputation for being very responsive to questions from the public. I have mulled this over in my mind too. If I were sitting at home watching t.v. and saw an infraction of the Rules...and I were so inclined to call it in... I would have no clue who to email or what phone number to call. It just seems like whomever this was had that info at the ready. Though, the head Rules honcho (forgot her name) for the LPGA did say they weren't notified until Inkster was on the 17th hole. That's a long time later than the 10th tee! It apparently took a long time to investigate it by looking at the video evidence. Also, the Rules official said that the emailer was credible in that they'd cited the Rule and Decision on the Rule (14-3/10). Hmmm. As Buzzer said....what if the emailing busy-body, rat fink Rules Nazi was an off-duty Rules official? Or as also mentioned...what if the tattle-tale, creepy finger-pointing low life was a player...perhaps retired or from another tour? This is why I don't understand all the yabbering about how calls or emails from "viewers" should not be allowed. ALL reports of Rules violations should be considered and looked at. I'm sure the Tours get loads of ridiculous 'reports' which are dismissed quickly. However, there is a precedent set (on all Tours) for the investigation of Rules infraction reports which have proven to be valid and have been acted upon after investigation. Tens of thousands of t.v. viewers, as well as those on site, saw Inkster swinging the club w/ the artificial aid attached. How on earth could the LPGA dismiss the FACT that she was clearly in violation of the Rules as reported by the emailer? They couldn't and ....shouldn't!

08-23-2010, 12:33 PM	#11
heddwyn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,380	Mmm, isn't Inky a 'best player'? Surely you're not suggesting she just got caught out, X5? ;)

08-23-2010, 01:55 PM	#13
xman5 Contest Statistician Join Date: May 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 3,904	Here is the one rule I do not understand. Someone please explain it to me. If there is a spike mark in my line on the green I can not repair it. Yet if there is a ball mark or other blemish on the green I can fix ( and you should fix all ball marks to help your greens). Also use soft spikes. I do not understand the logic.

08-23-2010, 03:04 PM	#14
Buzzer Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hilton Head, SC Posts: 2,831 Images: 13	How do we know (and we never will) that the caller might have been an off-duty rules official? How do we know that the caller wasn't an on-duty rules official? How do we know that there even was a "caller"? Viva Annika

08-23-2010, 08:15 PM	#19
wiefan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,135	Originally Posted by LoJo I have mulled this over in my mind too. If I were sitting at home watching t.v. and saw an infraction of the Rules...and I were so inclined to call it in... I would have no clue who to email or what phone number to call. It just seems like whomever this was had that info at the ready. Though, the head Rules honcho (forgot her name) for the LPGA did say they weren't notified until Inkster was on the 17th hole. That's a long time later than the 10th tee! It apparently took a long time to investigate it by looking at the video evidence. Also, the Rules official said that the emailer was credible in that they'd cited the Rule and Decision on the Rule (14-3/10). Hmmm. As Buzzer said....what if the emailing busy-body, rat fink Rules Nazi was an off-duty Rules official? Or as also mentioned...what if the tattle-tale, creepy finger-pointing low life was a player...perhaps retired or from another tour? This is why I don't understand all the yabbering about how calls or emails from "viewers" should not be allowed. ALL reports of Rules violations should be considered and looked at. I'm sure the Tours get loads of ridiculous 'reports' which are dismissed quickly. However, there is a precedent set (on all Tours) for the investigation of Rules infraction reports which have proven to be valid and have been acted upon after investigation. Tens of thousands of t.v. viewers, as well as those on site, saw Inkster swinging the club w/ the artificial aid attached. How on earth could the LPGA dismiss the FACT that she was clearly in violation of the Rules as reported by the emailer? They couldn't and ....shouldn't! Hi ya Lojo...I think I heard the lady say that they "made their investigation and was ready to pass judgement" while Julie was on the 17th...and with only one hole left decided to not interupt Julie from finishing, before thay actually Heard from Julie "Exactly what she did" before telling Julie that it was an infraction....I am pretty sure that this is what I heard the lady say anyway...have a good day...see ya!!

08-23-2010, 11:16 PM	#20
ajraymond Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 656	Originally Posted by xman5 The best players know the rules and use them to their advantage. I once saw Ernie Els hit a ball under a little bridge crossing a creek and get a free drop because he was standing on the cart path around the bridge. I also believe he was selling the fact that he was going to hit it left handed as well. Wildest ruling I've ever seen. It was a European event and he either came first or second in that tournament. As for the spikes, remember when a rather rotund Philly Mick had that routine of circling the hole reading putts at the Masters that one year? He had steel spikes on and was leaving crop circles around the hole. I think if I'm not mistaken it almost lead to blows with Vijay who was following two groups behind. Now I don't know the exact rule, but here is a guy leaving huge spike marks around the greens with no penalty but these guys have to putt through them and take a penalty if they tap them down? Makes no sense to me but oh well.

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