hmmm..didn't know this???

[wiefan]

Hi ya Lojo and her faithful dedicated RULES STAFF...

ok Lojo...I know that you are so so HAPPY at being selected as the Wie-Moderator that you have not bothered to do the job that "was" and "is" yours from the start...when god created you, it was to be the Leader of the Discussion Board Rules committee....so Lojo, take off that silly looking Wie Moderator Beenie and put on your "old standby rules helmet"

here is the rules question and scenerio

this is what we have learned since the "Wind Blowing the ball on the green lesson"....if your ball is on the green and you mark it and clean the ball and then put the ball back down....your ball is NOW in Play....it doesn't matter if your marker is still there when you place the ball on the green...if the wind blows your ball....you play the ball from the NEW position....this was established in the lengthy thread earlier....ok folks...so are we on the same page....the wind blows and whereever your ball ends up...you play it from there

here is the scenerio....suppose you place the ball on the wrong side of the Marker and the wind blows (with the marker still in place) and takes your ball off the green...what happens now???

for those that like to figure out the answer...I will not give the answer in this post so that you can try to figure out this without seeing the answer

I will end this post right here....my next post will have the answer and an article that I got this from....Honor system folks...do not peek at the answer if you are trying to guess...see ya in a second!!

[wiefan]

Hi ya folks...ok...seconds are up....here is the article quote that tells the entire story



Leader-Telegram Online

It's in the rules
In the 2008 Wisconsin State Open Championships in Eau Claire, my playing competitor hit his second shot to the green on the par 4 No. 1. After marking and cleaning his ball, he replaced the ball (leaving his mark) and lined up his putt. While observing the line from behind the ball, a gust of wind moved the ball and it rolled back off the green a full 20 yards from where the mark still lay. The player was about to return the ball to his mark and he nearly cost himself a major penalty if it hadn't been for tournament director Joe Stadler's intervention.

Joe had observed the entire incident and correctly ruled that the ball MUST be played where it rolled to, still lying two. Joe cited rule 18-1 and specifically Decision 18-1/12, stating that wind by definition is NOT an outside agency. Additionally, rule 18-4 states a ball is back in play after it has been placed - whether the marker has been picked up or not. It was a tough break. Instead of a 10-foot putt for birdie, he failed to get up and down and bogeyed the hole.

Had the player returned the ball to where it originally was and played it, he actually would have violated two rules - 18-2, ball at rest moved (one-stroke penalty) and rule 20-7, playing ball from wrong place (two-stroke penalty). The great penalty would have applied. On windy days, when lining up a long putt with the ball still on the green, it is best to leave the mark and place the ball 2-3 inches ahead or behind the mark, and place correctly when ready to putt. In doing so, any movement would entitle the player to replace the ball in its original position without penalty.

ok folks...now tell me...I am missing something here in the logic department...on one hand they say "rule 18-4 states a ball is back in play after it has been placed - whether the marker has been picked up or not"....there is nothing that says it has to be placed exactly correct...I mean, you infer this but word for word it does NOT state this... then "place the ball 2-3 inches ahead or behind the mark"...notice it does use the word "PLACE"

and finally if the wind moves the ball, "any movement would entitle the player to replace the ball in its original position without penalty"

folks I think this is a case of terminology...the word "Place"...the difference being that is "Placed correctly", then the rules are in effect, if "placed incorrectly" then the rules are not in effect yet

there is a lot of things I can think of that makes this "Incorrect placement" wrong....for one thing....putting the ball at rest on the green anyplace except for the correct spot could be interpreted as "Testing the surface of the putting green"

here is my point...all of this time I thought that the moment you placed your ball on the green with the marker...the BALL IS IN PLAY...you put the ball in the wrong place SHOULD be a Penalty of some sort

another "farfetched example"...suppose you do this "Incorrect placement of the ball"....why not place the ball at the ridge of the breaking putt line...then you can more or less figure out the angle of the putting surface to determine the break....I mean this article states putting it a few inches is ok...it doesn't say what happens if you put it a couple feet away from the Marker

anyway....whadda ya think folks....do you think Lojo will be screaming at me or patting me on the back....folks, if Lojo gets really angry at this posting of mine....I could get "BANNED" from the Wie Nation by this strict Wie-moderator

anyway....all of you have a good day....I hope I didn't confuse any of you

have a good day...see ya....by the way....go Wiesy go!!!

[wiefan]

Hi ya folks....ahhh shucks...I was going to play a Texas Holdem Tournament but the site has some problems...then "POOF" it dawned on me

in the article they never did cite rule and verse about this wind blowing an incorrectly placed ball....nor a rule and verse about the limitations of placing a ball from it's marker

and come to think of it...in all of my years watching golf on TV...I have NEVER EVER seen anyone place a ball in an obvious "Incorrect placing"

also....now that I am on a ROLL....suppose you take this rule as "God's Commandments"....now if you place your ball "Correctly" and the ball is moved by the wind into the water....in theory, you could say the Ball was placed 1/2 inch "OFF the correct mark" and thus I get to replace the watered ball at the marker....heck what's to stop a player from saying he placed it 1/4 of an inch "OFF"....folks...if you look at players placing their ball in the "Correct spot"....it is NEVER ever "EXACTLY CORRECT"...sometime a little fudge hereor there with the marker and then a little fudge with the Ball placement....it is NOT direct Rocket science ACCURATE anyway

yeah yeah I know, it is an "Honor thing"...if the player knows it is incorrect then he will call it upon himself

but in the same light...when JJ said she DID NOT double hit her ball out of the trap...even after looking countless times at the replay...JJ STILL SAID she didn't...why is there a double standard here...I would trust JJ MORE than I would a player that placed his ball 1/4 of an inch closer to the hole....but no one will question this move....but the rules officials Penalized JJ, even though she insisted that she did NOT double hit the ball....if anything, the player swinging the club KNOWS...she can feel the double hit....I believe JJ....this is ONE very HONEST CLASSY INDIVIDUAL....BOOOOO Rules official in that call

anyway....have a good evening folks...Wiesy tees off in less than nine hours....hmmm....I should go and get some sleep...exciting day tomorrow....go Wiesy go....see ya!!

[ctmurray]

Originally Posted by wiefan

On windy days, when lining up a long putt with the ball still on the green, it is best to leave the mark and place the ball 2-3 inches ahead or behind the mark, and place correctly when ready to putt. In doing so, any movement would entitle the player to replace the ball in its original position without penalty.

They real key is to not play on such windy days. Until recently I had not played courses with fast enough greens to have this happen. But I started playing a new course and this spring on the practice green the wind was blowing balls around. So I was practicing my "no touch the green" putting style. By the time we teed off the front passed through and it was not as windy. But I was ready.