A "Golf " rule question

[wiefan]

Hi ya Lojo...I had dinner with some friends last night and we were talking about rules....personally I think I am way way smarter than my friends when it comes to rules of golf....because of my taking "Lojo's Rules of Golf101"....just pumping you up lojo

anyway...one of the guys said that if you drop your club in a bunker...it is not a penalty because you are NOT holding your club....now keep in mind that this takes place BEFORE a shot is taken from that bunker...he said that as long as you are not holding the club in your hand is is not a penalty

I Said that it is...simply for the fact that I would consider this to be "Testing the Properties of the sand" and I remember reading somewhere about any time the club touches the bunker sand it is a penalty...so in essense, you cannot ground your club, you cannot use it to support a fall, etc

now who is correct...my friend said that as long as you are not holding the club, you can have your clubs in the sand

of course we were both talking about the club NOT falling on the ball or near it

I said Penalty...my friend says not...I am a Proud graduate of Lojo's class, my friend is not....actually folks, I only passed because of the Presidential Ruling...."NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND"....lojo had to pass me or else she would have me in her class again next year

anyway folks...that is my golf question for the day...see ya folks!!

[LoJo]

Originally Posted by wiefan

Hi ya Lojo...I had dinner with some friends last night and we were talking about rules....personally I think I am way way smarter than my friends when it comes to rules of golf....because of my taking "Lojo's Rules of Golf101"....just pumping you up lojo

anyway...one of the guys said that if you drop your club in a bunker...it is not a penalty because you are NOT holding your club....now keep in mind that this takes place BEFORE a shot is taken from that bunker...he said that as long as you are not holding the club in your hand is is not a penalty

I Said that it is...simply for the fact that I would consider this to be "Testing the Properties of the sand" and I remember reading somewhere about any time the club touches the bunker sand it is a penalty...so in essense, you cannot ground your club, you cannot use it to support a fall, etc

now who is correct...my friend said that as long as you are not holding the club, you can have your clubs in the sand

of course we were both talking about the club NOT falling on the ball or near it

I said Penalty...my friend says not...I am a Proud graduate of Lojo's class, my friend is not....actually folks, I only passed because of the Presidential Ruling...."NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND"....lojo had to pass me or else she would have me in her class again next year

anyway folks...that is my golf question for the day...see ya folks!!

Sorry, wiefan, but your friend is correct. No penalty.

So long as nothing is done to test the condition of the hazard or improve the lie of the ball, there would be no penalty. One may also use a club to prevent falling while entering a hazard (bunker or water hazard). Some think you can't take other clubs into a hazard ...you can.

It's Exception 1 to R. 13-4

13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions

Except as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard) or that, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player must not:

a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard;

b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with his hand or a club; or

c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching the hazard.

Exceptions:

1. Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling, in removing an obstruction, in measuring or in marking the position of, retrieving, lifting, placing or replacing a ball under any Rule or
(b) places his clubs in a hazard.

There should be a Snopes for the Rules of Golf.

[wiefan]

Hi ya lojo...thanks for your answer

let me ask this about hazards....I know that improving one's stance is a penalty in the fairway....but

when a person is in the bunker and he wiggles his feet deep into the sand for better balance ....why is this NOT called for "Improving his stance" type of penalty....he is actually digging in his feet in an instance where just normal standing is possible....just curious when discussing penalties on stances....why is it different ??

I ask this because of the incident of the Korean Amateur who got penalized for "REPLACING her divot that got stuck to her golf cleats...Esther Cho if I am not mistaken...in that one...if she threw away the stucked divot...she would NOT have a penalty...but because she placed it back where she got it...it was called improving your stance penalty

I would have thought that is she didn't replace the divot of grass, then this would MORE seem like imnproving her stance....but the rule was opposite of my line of thinking

anyway I am sure you remember this incident....anyway...thanks for your answers....have a good day...see ya!!

[LoJo]

Originally Posted by wiefan

Hi ya lojo...thanks for your answer

let me ask this about hazards....I know that improving one's stance is a penalty in the fairway....but

when a person is in the bunker and he wiggles his feet deep into the sand for better balance ....why is this NOT called for "Improving his stance" type of penalty....he is actually digging in his feet in an instance where just normal standing is possible....just curious when discussing penalties on stances....why is it different ??

I ask this because of the incident of the Korean Amateur who got penalized for "REPLACING her divot that got stuck to her golf cleats...Esther Cho if I am not mistaken...in that one...if she threw away the stucked divot...she would NOT have a penalty...but because she placed it back where she got it...it was called improving your stance penalty

I would have thought that is she didn't replace the divot of grass, then this would MORE seem like imnproving her stance....but the rule was opposite of my line of thinking

anyway I am sure you remember this incident....anyway...thanks for your answers....have a good day...see ya!!

wiefan... A player is entitled to "fairly take his stance" and to place his feet firmly. However, there are instances in bunkers where golfers might be penalized if they were deemed to have built a stance (like by knocking down the steep side of a bunker).

I do remember the Esther Cho incident where she lost the hole in Match play because she replaced a divot which she'd 'moved' on her spikes. The reason was that when she replaced the divot, it was improving her stance. I know it sounds goofy...and it is...but them's the Rules, and there are reasons behind them.

The instance between the Cho ruling and fairly taking one's stance is not really the same. She removed the divot with her spikes...fine...no penalty. But when she replaced it she supposedly "improved" the area of her intended stance. It'd be like if you were taking your stance on a slope in the rough and there was a rock below your foot....so you don't like that and flick it away. Fine. But then you decide that the rock would be advantageous under your foot because it might help your balance...so you replace the rock where it was. Uh...no. You've just improved your stance. If you'd left it there to begin with...no problem.

Again...that's an simplified example, but maybe you can visualize the situation.

[cougar]

Wiefan, I also remember the incident at the Ginn Open when Terry placed Annika's bag next to the bunker before she hit her shot. The wind blew it over into the bunker. He had to check with the rules official, and there was no penalty for Annika.

[wiefan]

Hi ya lojo and Cougar....thanks for the examples

here is my thought about Esther Cho's ruling....suppose she is standing on the divot...and we all know that divots are kinda loose and probably squeshy...thus uncomfortable....so with her spikes it gets stuck....so she tosses it away and leaves it tossed aside....now her spikes have something underneath that is NOT squeshy but better solid.....I would think that this would be "Improving her stance" and advantage....having to replace the squishy divot would be more toward playing as it is...just my opinion...whadda ya think??

have a nice day....see ya!!

[BigBurt]

Weifan now you are up to speed on all the rules, answer this one for me. Unless the rule has changed a players ball that is on the green and is struck by another players ball the first ball would be placed back at it's original position. And what if the ball was placed on the spot and was now in play and the wind comes up and blows it in the hole while the player is lining up the putt is this a penalty or a no putt. You may have to get help from Lojo.

[wiefan]

Originally Posted by BigBurt

Weifan now you are up to speed on all the rules, answer this one for me. Unless the rule has changed a players ball that is on the green and is struck by another players ball the first ball would be placed back at it's original position. And what if the ball was placed on the spot and was now in play and the wind comes up and blows it in the hole while the player is lining up the putt is this a penalty or a no putt. You may have to get help from Lojo.

Hi ya bigburt....great question....but you are looking at a poster that attended ALL of LOJO's seminars and I haven't missed a class of hers....of course I went to the seminars to eat the food served....and I did fall asleep at a few classes....but...I do know this answer....it is actually EASY

as long as the Ball is in PLAY....it means it is "IN PLAY"...the shot counts....there is NO Penalty or replacement of the ball....the BALL was in play at the time and whatever the wind does...SO BE IT...if the wind blew the ball back into the fairway...this is where the ball is PLAYED

I JUST KNOW that Lojo will give me a GOLD star for this answer....I am 100% positive about this answer....if I was on the "Milliondollar show".....I would press the Buzzer and state...."THIS IS MY FINAL ANSWER"...and I know I am correct

thanks Bigburt for giving me these questions....I wish others would give me more...the more difficult...the better I like them

anyway...have a good day bigburt....so far I am having a TERRIFFIC day watching Wiesy golf on the computer....the kid has REBOUNDED from YESTERDAY...BIG TIME....she is presently one under after 6 holes and she has SIX straight GIRs....great playing by the kid...anyway...see ya...go Wiesy go!!!

[wiefan]

OK folks...WHERE is the TEACHER????>>>>Lojo....I paid for the classes and seminars...I want my grade posted....gulp....just kidding folks...actually the lessons and seminars were free

ahh folks...I feel kinda rascal like today....Wiesy is playing rather steady golf...I like it

anyway...I am sure that Lojo will give me my well deserved grade.....anyway....have a good Sunday folks....see ya...go Wiesy go!!!

[LoJo]

wiefan......

A+ !!