Politics

x-admin · 10-02-2008, 04:36 PM

This thread is for anything political......as in elections, tax debates, liberal vs conservative, etc. Don't post political stuff anywhere else. Any other political threads will be removed without notice.

xman5 · 10-02-2008, 04:49 PM

MP said.

You're the one who brought up the Civil War. It wasn't about slavery, it was about the rights of individual states.

And that state right being slavery. From the time of the Declaration of independence (removing the slavery clause or not passing), thru the constitution (2/3 a man) to , the Compromise of 1820, to the Compromise of 1850, to Bleeding Kansas to Dred Scott, Nullification, to the Election of 1860. It is all about Slavery. States Rights has, was always a smoke screen for slavery. The issue had always been avoided by compromise after compromise. By 1860 no one was compromising any longer. Go back and read the writings of Adams, Franklin and yes even Jefferson who knew that the continuation of slavery would eventually lead to something like the Civil War. Although latter in life, Jefferson argued that freedom for the slaves might be worse. They wanted to stop it at the begining of the country but could not without destroying the country as it started. In the end they felt it was better to have the "American Experiment".

Within the discussion of states rights, the issues of tarriffs though very important, it is subordinate to the issue of slavery when it comes to the causes leading to the civil war and its actual outbreak. But again the underlying reasons for the economic divide between the North and the South is always traced back to the South's reliance of slavery as the backbone of their economy.

It is the real dirty history of the US that no one wants to talk about truthfully. It is all about slavery.

Blue · 10-02-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by admin

This thread is for anything political......as in elections, tax debates, liberal vs conservative, etc. Don't post political stuff anywhere else. Any other political threads will be removed without notice.

Good idea. Attempting to discuss taxes in a vacuum without touching on other political issues did not make sense.

Blue · 10-02-2008, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by xman5

And that state right being slavery ... It is the real dirty history of the US that no one wants to talk about truthfully. It is all about slavery.

Absolutely right.

MarinePaul · 10-02-2008, 06:10 PM

I don't think anyone here thinks slavery was a good idea. What that had to do with taxation was my question.

NTB · 10-02-2008, 08:39 PM

Every political system thru out history had to deal with slavery.
Taxes is nothing new either.
If you tax Barbara Streisand then the cost to get her to perform will go
up in order for her lifestyle to not change which will in turn cost more for
the little guy to see her in concerts and movies etc You will say notax why
are you using Barbara Streisand? Silly isn't it? It shows that no matter how
hard you try you can't tax the rich. Taxes always trickle down to people with the least amount of money. This my friends is true slavery and is not cost effective.
So how can the economy be fixed?
A flat tax is still a tax that will trickle down. An excises tax is a cost on products we buy and only on new products. Now you tax everyone including drug dealers and the very rich. It also is a cause of cost of products to level out.
Please study this and call or email them in order truly understand it.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

PAC RIM · 10-03-2008, 04:12 AM

Did anyone watch the Sarah Palin show?

Biden was definitely outclassed and looked us in the eye to lie at least a dozen times. I particularly took note of the fact that Senator-Lawyer Biden had no clue about the Constitution and the role of a Vice President as President of the Senate. I bet Biden has no clue the Vice President maintains a suite of offices in the Senate.

Harry Reid is just appointed as the Majority leader to stand in for the VP. Better get ready for a new boss Harry.

Blue · 10-03-2008, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by PAC RIM

Did anyone watch the Sarah Palin show?

Biden was definitely outclassed and looked us in the eye to lie at least a dozen times. I particularly took note of the fact that Senator-Lawyer Biden had no clue about the Constitution and the role of a Vice President as President of the Senate. I bet Biden has no clue the Vice President maintains a suite of offices in the Senate.

Harry Reid is just appointed as the Majority leader to stand in for the VP. Better get ready for a new boss Harry.

You're joking, right? Biden's been in the senate for 30+ years. He knows what the VP does and where his offices are. Palin just learned about the VP role at Debate Camp last week.

Also care to list the dozen or more lies?

At least Biden knew the meaning of "Achilles' Heel," unlike Sarah (gosh darn, you betcha) Palin.

twmw · 10-03-2008, 08:24 AM

Can I use football Analogy? Coming into debate Biden was #1 ranked football team while Palin was 50 ponts underdog Div 3 football team. Challenge for Biden wasn't winning debate but not being accused of running up the score against inferior opponent because it could make palin sympathetic figure. So result was pretty much predictable to me.
Every poll showed Biden was clear winner but also poll showed everyone said Palin did better than expected because She was expected to lose by 50 points but instead lost by only 20 points.

NTB · 10-03-2008, 08:43 AM

Twmw you now are pulling a biden when you say every poll said biden won.
Only lib polls said biden won.
Fox had a U.S. open vote on who won Palin won 88% to 22%.
They took a unbiased poll on a group of independent voters Palin won the
debate but only changed like two or three of them to vote for Mccain.
An honest poll showed Palin winning hands down.
As usual with dc politicians Biden streached the truth to the max and out right
lied on several occasions.

Tmwm come on man lets be truth seekers.

http://www.vote.com/

10-02-2008, 04:49 PM	#2
xman5 Contest Statistician Join Date: May 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 3,902	MP said. You're the one who brought up the Civil War. It wasn't about slavery, it was about the rights of individual states. And that state right being slavery. From the time of the Declaration of independence (removing the slavery clause or not passing), thru the constitution (2/3 a man) to , the Compromise of 1820, to the Compromise of 1850, to Bleeding Kansas to Dred Scott, Nullification, to the Election of 1860. It is all about Slavery. States Rights has, was always a smoke screen for slavery. The issue had always been avoided by compromise after compromise. By 1860 no one was compromising any longer. Go back and read the writings of Adams, Franklin and yes even Jefferson who knew that the continuation of slavery would eventually lead to something like the Civil War. Although latter in life, Jefferson argued that freedom for the slaves might be worse. They wanted to stop it at the begining of the country but could not without destroying the country as it started. In the end they felt it was better to have the "American Experiment". Within the discussion of states rights, the issues of tarriffs though very important, it is subordinate to the issue of slavery when it comes to the causes leading to the civil war and its actual outbreak. But again the underlying reasons for the economic divide between the North and the South is always traced back to the South's reliance of slavery as the backbone of their economy. It is the real dirty history of the US that no one wants to talk about truthfully. It is all about slavery. Last edited by xman5; 10-02-2008 at 05:23 PM.

10-02-2008, 05:45 PM	#3
Blue Forum Moderator Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2009. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,650 Images: 6	Originally Posted by admin This thread is for anything political......as in elections, tax debates, liberal vs conservative, etc. Don't post political stuff anywhere else. Any other political threads will be removed without notice. Good idea. Attempting to discuss taxes in a vacuum without touching on other political issues did not make sense.

10-02-2008, 05:48 PM	#4
Blue Forum Moderator Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2009. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,650 Images: 6	Originally Posted by xman5 And that state right being slavery ... It is the real dirty history of the US that no one wants to talk about truthfully. It is all about slavery. Absolutely right.

10-02-2008, 06:10 PM	#5
MarinePaul Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 8,001	I don't think anyone here thinks slavery was a good idea. What that had to do with taxation was my question. __________________ Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have.

10-02-2008, 08:39 PM	#6
NTB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: hot springs village arkansas Posts: 2,288 Images: 4	Every political system thru out history had to deal with slavery. Taxes is nothing new either. If you tax Barbara Streisand then the cost to get her to perform will go up in order for her lifestyle to not change which will in turn cost more for the little guy to see her in concerts and movies etc You will say notax why are you using Barbara Streisand? Silly isn't it? It shows that no matter how hard you try you can't tax the rich. Taxes always trickle down to people with the least amount of money. This my friends is true slavery and is not cost effective. So how can the economy be fixed? A flat tax is still a tax that will trickle down. An excises tax is a cost on products we buy and only on new products. Now you tax everyone including drug dealers and the very rich. It also is a cause of cost of products to level out. Please study this and call or email them in order truly understand it. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer __________________ God Bless America \"Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.\" - William Penn

10-02-2008, 04:36 PM	#1
x-admin Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 344	Politics This thread is for anything political......as in elections, tax debates, liberal vs conservative, etc. Don't post political stuff anywhere else. Any other political threads will be removed without notice.

10-03-2008, 04:12 AM	#7
PAC RIM Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 520 Images: 1	Did anyone watch the Sarah Palin show? Biden was definitely outclassed and looked us in the eye to lie at least a dozen times. I particularly took note of the fact that Senator-Lawyer Biden had no clue about the Constitution and the role of a Vice President as President of the Senate. I bet Biden has no clue the Vice President maintains a suite of offices in the Senate. Harry Reid is just appointed as the Majority leader to stand in for the VP. Better get ready for a new boss Harry.

10-03-2008, 07:33 AM	#8
Blue Forum Moderator Contests: Joint 3rd place overall winner 2009. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,650 Images: 6	Originally Posted by PAC RIM Did anyone watch the Sarah Palin show? Biden was definitely outclassed and looked us in the eye to lie at least a dozen times. I particularly took note of the fact that Senator-Lawyer Biden had no clue about the Constitution and the role of a Vice President as President of the Senate. I bet Biden has no clue the Vice President maintains a suite of offices in the Senate. Harry Reid is just appointed as the Majority leader to stand in for the VP. Better get ready for a new boss Harry. You're joking, right? Biden's been in the senate for 30+ years. He knows what the VP does and where his offices are. Palin just learned about the VP role at Debate Camp last week. Also care to list the dozen or more lies? At least Biden knew the meaning of "Achilles' Heel," unlike Sarah (gosh darn, you betcha) Palin.

10-03-2008, 08:24 AM	#9
twmw Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 94	Can I use football Analogy? Coming into debate Biden was #1 ranked football team while Palin was 50 ponts underdog Div 3 football team. Challenge for Biden wasn't winning debate but not being accused of running up the score against inferior opponent because it could make palin sympathetic figure. So result was pretty much predictable to me. Every poll showed Biden was clear winner but also poll showed everyone said Palin did better than expected because She was expected to lose by 50 points but instead lost by only 20 points.

10-03-2008, 08:43 AM	#10
NTB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: hot springs village arkansas Posts: 2,288 Images: 4	Twmw you now are pulling a biden when you say every poll said biden won. Only lib polls said biden won. Fox had a U.S. open vote on who won Palin won 88% to 22%. They took a unbiased poll on a group of independent voters Palin won the debate but only changed like two or three of them to vote for Mccain. An honest poll showed Palin winning hands down. As usual with dc politicians Biden streached the truth to the max and out right lied on several occasions. Tmwm come on man lets be truth seekers. http://www.vote.com/ __________________ God Bless America \"Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.\" - William Penn Last edited by NTB; 10-03-2008 at 09:10 AM.

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