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Old 10-03-2008, 08:11 AM   #11
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Maybe you should understand difference between "poll" and "internet vote". Also Al jazeera is more objective and tells more truth than Fox, seriously.
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Old 10-03-2008, 08:16 AM   #12
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Tmwm I feel anyone can text message. It came out Palin winning
go to this site http://www.vote.com/
The internet will be more truthful then cbs nbc cnbc etc.
go to this site above and cast your vote it only ask one question, who won?
Most tv polls are skewed to the max.
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Old 10-03-2008, 08:17 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by twmw View Post
Maybe you should understand difference between "poll" and "internet vote". Also Al jazeera is more objective and tells more truth than Fox, seriously.
You gotta be f'n kiddin' me?

Now I know you're not all there. If Al-Jazeera is more objective than Fox then I don't want to get anywhere near the Lib Kool-Aid you're drinking.

That's like saying Keith Olberman is an impartial observer.
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:40 AM   #14
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During the Debate: Palin's Boo...Boos:

PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."

THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.

*
PALIN: Criticized Obama's "plan to mandate health care coverage and have universal government run program" for health care, and added: "I don't think it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds."

THE FACTS: Wrong on several counts. Obama's plan does not provide for universal coverage, only mandates insurance for children and doesn't turn the system over to the government. Most people would still get private insurance through their work. Obama proposes that the government subsidize the cost of health coverage for millions who have trouble affording it and he'd set up an exchange to negotiate prices and benefits with private insurers — with one option being a government-run plan.

*
PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."

THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control.

*
PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.

THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.

*
PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."

THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."

*
PALIN: "Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year."

THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others.

*
PALIN: Said a McCain-Palin administration "will support Israel," including "building our embassy ... in Jerusalem."

THE FACTS: Moving the U.S. Embassy from its present location in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is a perennial promise of presidential candidates courting the Jewish-American vote. In fact, moving the embassy is actually required by U.S. law. But successive administrations of both parties, including George W. Bush's, have made the same pledge only to find that the realities of Middle East peacemaking have forced them to invoke a waiver to delay it. Jerusalem is claimed as a capital by both Israel and the Palestinians and Israel's occupation of east Jerusalem is not internationally recognized. The city's status is one of the key issues of disagreement in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

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Old 10-03-2008, 09:45 AM   #15
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What's your source DB?

Don't just cut and paste.
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:57 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by MoReb51 View Post
What's your source DB?

Don't just cut and paste.
Should I say more!
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:20 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by dangerbob View Post
About what I expected.

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Old 10-03-2008, 10:29 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by MoReb51 View Post
What's your source DB?
The same as where PacRim get his...the Koran!
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:41 AM   #19
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Just a few quick comments.

Going into the debate I expected nothing from Palin. I think that she did a fine job and was in command of her facts. I would call it a tie. After seeing the debate I would have no problem with her being the VP.

The problem is with the facts and this is for both sides. Both sides are taking partial facts and using them to misslead what the other side is trying to represent. This was done evenly from Biden and Palin.

As for DB's list, you can basically get that from CNN's fact check. You can also go there and build a list just as long showing Biden giving misleading and incorrect statments.

I can go on and on, but it is pointless. Here are just a few.


Fact Check: Does Obama almost always vote with his party?
Posted: 08:33 AM ET
The Statement:
Gov. Sarah Palin said at the Oct. 2 vice presidential debate that Sen. Barack Obama has "pretty much only voted along his party lines. In fact, 96 percent of his votes have been solely along party line."

Get the facts!


The Facts:
Congressional Quarterly examined Obama's votes in the Senate. According to the analysis, Obama has indeed voted with the Democratic Party 96 percent of the time.

CQ - a non-partisan and highly respected journal of Congressional affairs - says Senator John McCain has voted in line with the Republican Party 86 percent of the time. McCain's total number of votes is much larger, since he has been in the Senate since 1986, while Obama is in his first term.

Congressional Quarterly also looked at what it deemed to be "key" votes. That analysis found Obama voted with his party on 29 out of 30 votes, which came out to 97 percent of the time. For McCain, CQ said there have been 335 "key" votes over the years, and that he voted with his party on 266 of them — 79 percent of the time.

The Verdict: True.

Filed under: Barack Obama • Fact Check

Fact Check: McCain wants to deregulate health care?
Posted: 10:30 PM ET
The Statement:
During the vice presidential debate on Oct. 2, Democratic nominee Joe Biden described Republican presidential nominee John McCain as a long-time supporter of deregulation of the banking industry and added, "As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for
the health care industry (is) deregulate it and let the free market move like he did for the banking industry."

Get the facts!


The Facts:
In Congress, Sen. John McCain has frequently supported deregulation. Some aspects of that deregulation are now widely blamed for the problems on Wall Street.

In the current issue of a magazine for the American Academy of Actuaries, McCain discussed a change he wants to bring to the health care market: allowing people to buy plans across state lines. "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last
decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation," he wrote in the magazine called "Contingencies."

Biden and Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama have pointed to the first part of that quote to bolster their argument that McCain wants to see the health care industry undergo the same changes as the banking industry. But the reform McCain wants for health care — state deregulation — is only one of several types of deregulation that reshaped the banking industry. McCain has not proposed reshaping the health care industry in all the same ways as banks.

McCain and his opponents disagree over what impact state deregulation could have on the health care industry. McCain says the increased competition would benefit consumers; Obama says consumers would lose key protections, and insurance companies would be given more power.

Though a frequent fan of deregulation, McCain blames the current Wall street mess partly on federal regulatory agencies failing to do their jobs, and vows to "replace the outdated patchwork quilt of regulatory oversight" with a high-level, bipartisan oversight board.

Verdict:
Misleading. McCain does want to overhaul state oversight of health care, but the deregulation he is calling for is not nearly as extensive as what was done to the banking system.

Biden misses mark on McCain tax vote
Posted: 10:24 PM ET

From CNN Assignment Editor Katy Byron


McCain did not vote on these tax proposals.
(CNN) — During the vice presidential debate, Joe Biden claimed that John McCain and Barack Obama voted "the exact same way" on a non-binding resolution that the Republican nominee’s campaign has said proposed raising taxes on individuals earning as little as $42,000 per year.

But as McCain staffers rushed to point out, McCain did not vote — either yea or nay — on those proposals, according to Senate voting records.

Filed under: Vice presidential debate

Fact Check: Did McCain warn about Fannie, Freddie 2 years ago?
Posted: 07:40 PM ET

The McCain campaign released a new television ad Tuesday.
The Statement: A television ad titled "Rein," released Tuesday, September 30 by Republican Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign, repeats a claim McCain has made repeatedly on the campaign trail — that he called for more oversight of lending institutions Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. "John McCain fought to rein in Fannie and Freddie," the ad's narrators says, before citing media reports on McCain's efforts.

Get the facts!


The Facts: In May 2006, McCain was speaking on the Senate floor in support of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Act of 2005, a plan he had co-sponsored. In the speech, he cited a federal report, saying that "Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets." He also noted a $3.8 million fine Freddie Mac had recently paid to the Federal Elections Commission over problems with disclosure of its political lobbying.

"These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform," McCain said in the speech. He urged senators to support changing how the institutions were overseen by the government. "If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole," McCain said in the speech.

The legislation, which never became law, would have moved oversight of Fannie and Freddie from the department of Housing and Urban Development to an independent Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Agency.

The Verdict: True. While it's impossible to know what the impact of his legislation would have been, the ad accurately describes McCain's stance and comments.

Last edited by xman5; 10-03-2008 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by MoReb51 View Post
You gotta be f'n kiddin' me?

Now I know you're not all there. If Al-Jazeera is more objective than Fox then I don't want to get anywhere near the Lib Kool-Aid you're drinking.

That's like saying Keith Olberman is an impartial observer.
Fox is just propaganda machine while Al Jazeera delivers news without distorting facts. Keith Olberman might not be impartial observer. Problem is right wingers somehow think Bill O'reilly is impartial observer.
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