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Old 11-30-2009, 12:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by xman5 View Post
By turning our back and letting illegal aliens stream accross the border we have created the environment for this to happen. But make no mistake this is not the policy of our country. These are acts done by indivduals and not the state, often exploting the same groups that they are from.

Thats why we need immigration reform so that these people can not be expoloited by these criminals. If we had real reform where these workers can be documented and access controlled these problems could be reduced greatly. Instead we stick out head in the sand, as the Congress is too weak to act on anything that might be difficult or to offend anyone and possible lose a vote. So nothing is done.
I don't think you don't mean to say this, but it sounds like you're saying they got what they deserved when the workers were tortured and killed.

I agree that the immigrant problem is completely out of control in this country. Politicians on the right and the left are catering to the rapidly growing immigrant populations in their districts and are afraid to enact tough laws.

However, it still doesn't mean, as MP stated, that these workers are free to just get on the road and head back south.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Blue View Post
Did you read the article LoJo posted?

A few excerpts:
"... captive workers are held against their will by their employers through threats and, all too often, the actual use of violence -- including beatings, shootings, and pistol-whippings.... The employers were charged with beating workers who were unwilling to work or who attempted to leave their employ picking tomatoes, holding their workers in debt, and chaining and locking workers inside u-haul trucks as punishment ... workers, mostly indigenous Mexicans and Guatemalans, were forced to work 10-12 hour days, 6 days per week, for as little as $20 per week, under the watch of armed guards. Those who attempted escape were assaulted, pistol-whipped, and even shot."
It's difficult to get on the road heading south when you're chained inside a truck, beaten or shot at if you attempt to leave.

Yes, I read it. They got themselves here illegally, so I have no sympathy.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:46 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Blue View Post
I don't think you don't mean to say this, but it sounds like you're saying they got what they deserved when the workers were tortured and killed.

I agree that the immigrant problem is completely out of control in this country. Politicians on the right and the left are catering to the rapidly growing immigrant populations in their districts and are afraid to enact tough laws.

However, it still doesn't mean, as MP stated, that these workers are free to just get on the road and head back south.
No what I am saying is that these people are being exploited by criminals and orginized crime, not the Gov't or the Law abbiding people of this country. It is not the fault of the people being exploited.

If we had real immigration reform, the workers can be documented and legally employed and the flow of people can be controlled. It would go along way to preventing these types of situations from occuring because the workers will have legal status and can go to the authorities without fear.

It is the undocumented, illegal status or whatever term you want to use that is the problem that allows them to be exploited. And that does not seem to be changing any time soon.

Last edited by xman5; 11-30-2009 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by MarinePaul View Post
Yes, I read it. They got themselves here illegally, so I have no sympathy.
But we are allowing them to come here by doing nothing to prevent it.

Also, as human beings they have rights that go beyond those of gov'ts. There is a clear line as to what you can do to another person, independent as to how or what side of a border they are on.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by MarinePaul View Post
Yes, I read it. They got themselves here illegally, so I have no sympathy.
So you're saying that just because someone broke immigration laws in crossing national border, they have the right to be tortured, held captive and shot? Isn't that just a bit harsh?
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:58 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Blue View Post
So you're saying that just because someone broke immigration laws in crossing national border, they have the right to be tortured, held captive and shot? Isn't that just a bit harsh?
It's sorta like buyer beware you usually know going in what the penalties
are in the country you are sneaking into.
In Dubai it's harsh here we will treat you like your special and give you
everything free. I don't blame illegals for coming into the USA.
Dubai it must be pretty stupid.
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Last edited by NTB; 11-30-2009 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:00 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by xman5 View Post
The difference is that what was done here was done by individuals and illegal and those responsible were convicted.

What is done in Dubai is sponsered by the Gov't.

I wouldn't go to Dubai if my life depended on it. They can rot.
Don't believe everything you read. Those are all propagandas. That's what American journalists are good for...writings all good things about America and and knocking off all other countries. You just have to travel to those places to judge for yourself what's going on.
If you go to those third world countries all you read about the U.S. are how powerful and rich this country is. They never write about those panhandlers in almost every corners of big cities. You'll never read about the skid rows, and all murders that's happenings here. But when they write or report about other countries, all they write about are the bad things that happens in those countries. Seldom they write about the good things. Then you believe it.
Dubai and other rich Mid-Eastern countries or cities have help many people from third world countries by employing them.(Not slave them as you read.) I have many relatives on my grandmother's side from the Philippines that are working in the Middle East and they are all happy about it. Unlike the U.S., they don't have strict immigration policy. Any one can apply for jobs and if hired they can easily obtain a work visa, unlike the U.S. in which you have to go through lots of "red tapes" just to enter this country. The reason why there are many illegal aliens here. Especially from Mexico where it's easier to cross the border illegally.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:56 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Blue View Post
So you're saying that just because someone broke immigration laws in crossing national border, they have the right to be tortured, held captive and shot? Isn't that just a bit harsh?
What I'm saying is, they come here at their own risk. They make a decision to break the law, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for them? Spare me the crocodile tears. I seriously doubt that the situation you're talking about is the norm.
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:54 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MarinePaul View Post
What I'm saying is, they come here at their own risk. They make a decision to break the law, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for them? Spare me the crocodile tears. I seriously doubt that the situation you're talking about is the norm.
Not all Migrant farm workers are illegals. Many are here under the Federal "Guest Worker" program....Dubya's plan to have migrants here for 3 years and then be deported if they don't obtain a green card. Yeah...right.

In the meantime, these guest workers are subjected to the same abuses as all migrants....in the country legally, or not.

Nearly 80% of all farm workers are immigrant workers and the majority of those are Mexicans.

Look...we have serious immigration issues here in the US. Both the agricultural "industry" and the federal government are part of the problem.

They're here, legally or illegally...they are a huge part of our economy...just "sending them back" won't work.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:03 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by LoJo View Post
Not all Migrant farm workers are illegals. Many are here under the Federal "Guest Worker" program....Dubya's plan to have migrants here for 3 years and then be deported if they don't obtain a green card. Yeah...right.

In the meantime, these guest workers are subjected to the same abuses as all migrants....in the country legally, or not.

Nearly 80% of all farm workers are immigrant workers and the majority of those are Mexicans.

Look...we have serious immigration issues here in the US. Both the agricultural "industry" and the federal government are part of the problem.

They're here, legally or illegally...they are a huge part of our economy...just "sending them back" won't work.
Not all migrant workers are subject to the conditions you cited in that article, either. Dubya's plan may not have worked, but neither does granting Social Security, welfare benefits and health care to illegals. Put it this way. If they're here illegally and getting abused, I'll still sleep well tonight.
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