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Old 05-14-2014, 06:14 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by xman5 View Post
There will always be the possibility of a lip out no matter the size of the hole. 2 reasons.

However to your point of making the hole larger, it will decrees the frequency of lip outs. I am not sure that a change of 1/4 to a 1/2 will make a decrees that is noticeable.

Ok for all you math majors please check my work.

For a ball to fall into the hole it has a speed that it must be rolling under so that it's equator will fall into the cup before hitting the opposite lip. A simple model is:

v<(2H-R)sqr(g/2r)

H is the hole radius
v is the maximum speed

So a larger hole will allow for a greater maximum speeds graphed over the complete radius (almost like an event horizon graph for light) . So some of those shots that you hit a little too hard will now fall.

Of course this does not take into account if the hole was placed on a slope and the direction of the slope and the angle of approach to the hole (your line). Also it does not take into account if there is any damage or imperfections in the hole.

Secondly, a larger hole will decrees the number of times that you are on the edge. But that is sort of a restatement of the mathematical concept above. That can be show in the graph i described above.

On the y axis is the hole diameter and the x axis is the arrival speed. That will give you an "effective" hole diameter for any arrival speed.

With all that said, putting is about feel not math.

Simple concept, bigger holes (15" ) is much easier because you do not have to be accurate. Secondly as shown by the math above that a hole that size also removes the concept of proper speed in putting.
The 15" hole is not going to work except for fun events and IMO, TaylorMade is kidding themselves if they think avid golfers are going to put up with these 15" holes being on their golf course along with the traditional hole on a regular basis. It's ridiculous and will only cause more conflict than it's worth.

I thought I was being careful and precise about the type of lip-out that I think needs to be eliminated from golf but maybe not, so here's a good example for you.
IK Kim @ the Kraft Nabisco Championship - YouTube

In my world, what would have happened is that the putt would have went in, with I.K. about fainting because she "almost" missed it, rather than actually missing it.
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Last edited by gxer; 05-14-2014 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by gxer View Post

In my world, what would have happened is that the putt would have went in, with I.K. about fainting because she "almost" missed it, rather than actually missing it.
How do I know that a 1/2 inch larger hole did not the give someone else 3 made putts that would have missed making Kim's putt on 18 irrelevant because she would have lost by 2 strokes.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:48 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by xman5 View Post
How do I know that a 1/2 inch larger hole did not the give someone else 3 made putts that would have missed making Kim's putt on 18 irrelevant because she would have lost by 2 strokes.
I don't know if 1/2" is the number, it might be less or more, but regardless, even if some other golfer who lipped out in the real world but lipped in, in my world, with enough extra made putts and won the event with I.K.'s putt not mattering, at least she doesn't have to carry the memory of that missed putt to her grave.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:58 PM   #24
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There is another way to improve the odds of making putts and cutting down on short putt lip-outs but I sort of hate to bring it up because I can almost feel the flack coming my way as I write about it.

OK, here goes. How about allowing a golfer to use a different ball to putt with?
It would be a slightly smaller but smooth ball (no dimples) and therefore no possible way for a dimple to cause the ball to come off the putter blade a little funny.

Think about it.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:40 AM   #25
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How about learning how to putt? It would be a novelty for sure, but could be the answer.
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:54 AM   #26
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Simply put: Lip outs are caused by the person holding the putter.....they are not caused by the ball; they are not caused by the hole. They are caused because the ball has been sent slightly off-line by the golfer who wants to blame everything but himself.
PUTT THE BALL ON THE CORRECT LINE AND AT THE CORRECT SPEED AND
IT WILL DROP.
iF IT DOES NOT DROP THEN DO THE RIGHT THING.......WHINE AND BLAME THE HOLE, THE BALL, THE WEATHER, THE HUMIDITY, THE COURSE SUPER, YOUR WIFE, THE DOG.....AND OH YES, THE PRO WHO TAUGHT YOU HOW TO PUTT.
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Old 05-15-2014, 10:44 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Buzzer View Post
Simply put: Lip outs are caused by the person holding the putter.....they are not caused by the ball; they are not caused by the hole. They are caused because the ball has been sent slightly off-line by the golfer who wants to blame everything but himself.
PUTT THE BALL ON THE CORRECT LINE AND AT THE CORRECT SPEED AND
IT WILL DROP.
iF IT DOES NOT DROP THEN DO THE RIGHT THING.......WHINE AND BLAME THE HOLE, THE BALL, THE WEATHER, THE HUMIDITY, THE COURSE SUPER, YOUR WIFE, THE DOG.....AND OH YES, THE PRO WHO TAUGHT YOU HOW TO PUTT.
With all due respect Buzzer, you and people like you are why golf is dying a slow death in the United States. You have a closed mind regarding changes that might be good for the game. I am not saying the 15" hole is the answer, I don't like the 15" hole on a traditional golf course, a course needs to be designed for it but won't be designed because, IMO, the 15" hole is nothing more than a fun fad and I don't believe it will catch on as an option in the way TaylorMade thinks it will.

IMO, people do not, I repeat do not, play golf because putting lures them into the game. People are lured into playing golf, at least initially, for one reason, a well hit golf shot goes a damn long ways compared to the distance the ball in play goes in other sports, much farther in fact.
That's the hook, that's why people who do get hooked work hard to get better at, hitting golf shots, not putting. Also, I am not saying that putting should be eliminated as a skill, not at all, but I do think addressing a certain type of lip-out and finding a way to eliminate them without damaging the game is worthwhile.

Anyway, we could argue about this all day long and get nowhere because of your closed mind regarding minor changes, which is fine, you are allowed to close your mind.

Have a good day.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:29 PM   #28
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Any major changes to the game of golf would require a new name to the game.
TaylorMade wants a change so they can make money selling 15" wells.
I don't have any idea why you advocate for the change since, by your own admission, you're a quitter.
As for my closed mind, I still play a decent game for being a month away from 81. I don't hit the ball as far as I once did....my iron play is fairly good and on occasion, from the Ladies tee, I still beat my age. Sometimes I come close and just miss because of a lip-out or two, but then that's my fault for mis-reading or mis-hitting a putt.
I'm at the point now where I only play 18 once a week......but I play 9 holes 3 or 4 times a week (if the aspirins are working properly) and on off days I spend a lot of time on the putting green (playing for quarters) or on the range still trying to rid my swing of that damn left to right arc that started to bug me about sixty years ago.
Yes sir; I have a closed mind, and neither you nor TaylorMade will open it.
Have a good day, my friend.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:34 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Buzzer View Post
Any major changes to the game of golf would require a new name to the game.
TaylorMade wants a change so they can make money selling 15" wells.
I don't have any idea why you advocate for the change since, by your own admission, you're a quitter.
As for my closed mind, I still play a decent game for being a month away from 81. I don't hit the ball as far as I once did....my iron play is fairly good and on occasion, from the Ladies tee, I still beat my age. Sometimes I come close and just miss because of a lip-out or two, but then that's my fault for mis-reading or mis-hitting a putt.
I'm at the point now where I only play 18 once a week......but I play 9 holes 3 or 4 times a week (if the aspirins are working properly) and on off days I spend a lot of time on the putting green (playing for quarters) or on the range still trying to rid my swing of that damn left to right arc that started to bug me about sixty years ago.
Yes sir; I have a closed mind, and neither you nor TaylorMade will open it.
Have a good day, my friend.
Just to be perfectly clear, I am not advocating for a change to the 15" hole on a traditional golf course and I am also fairly certain that a course will not be designed for it either.
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