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Old 05-12-2014, 04:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by xman5 View Post
So far this year most of my rounds have been well under 5 hours. More like 4.5. I always walk and carry my clubs. Last round was so fast that I never had time to sit. Groups ahead and behind us. I play at prime time on highly played public courses. I found last year that play times were way down
For me, having not played for several years, there needs to be a hook to entice me to play golf again. I admit I would like to try the 15" hole but before then I would probably need several weekends of range rat work just to get my ball striking half way decent again and I am not going to do it, unless the 15" hole becomes popular. I have my doubts that it will because, the derision directed to those of us who would like to try the 15" hole by the "you can't do this" traditional golfers, on and off the course, would be a huge obstacle to overcome.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:28 AM   #12
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In researching general comments made by avid golfers, the 15" hole appears to be doomed along with traditional golf, it's just a matter of time.

Traditional golfers, who have a vested interest in keeping change out of the game because they have worked to get where they are now and are not interested in new blood (those newbies are annoying) or making golf easier to score via fewer putts. The mind set seems to be, I worked hard to develop my game, you do the same or don't play it.

These days, it seems that people are choosing the "don't play it" option.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:51 AM   #13
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I think what we learn from this event is that it was fun for a change.

Players On The W I D E Open: "Absolute Fun!": The Loop : Golf Digest
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:18 PM   #14
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gxer, I'm sure it was fun. That was the point of the event.....fun. It's like when players participate in Scrambles, or Two clubs and a putter, or Nite Golf, or any of the variations of a regulation round of golf. It's for fun.

It seems like you didn't have much fun playing "traditional" golf because you didn't like putting. However, for many of us....golf is just fun...period.

Of course, it's more enjoyable when one plays and putts well, but we amateurs are doing it for the challenge and for the enjoyment = fun. You've apparently lost sight of that.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:30 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by LoJo View Post
gxer, I'm sure it was fun. That was the point of the event.....fun. It's like when players participate in Scrambles, or Two clubs and a putter, or Nite Golf, or any of the variations of a regulation round of golf. It's for fun.

It seems like you didn't have much fun playing "traditional" golf because you didn't like putting. However, for many of us....golf is just fun...period.

Of course, it's more enjoyable when one plays and putts well, but we amateurs are doing it for the challenge and for the enjoyment = fun. You've apparently lost sight of that.
I actually didn't stop playing golf because of putting, if you remember, it was course crowding, problems with playing on crowded courses and time constraints.
If I could afford membership at a private club, where crowding is not a problem, greens are smooth and the golf course in general is well maintained, then I would probably still be playing.

PS: I just thought of something. You may be the one who plays an event with the 15" hole before xman does, since you belong to a private club and in addition play events on public courses.
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Last edited by gxer; 05-13-2014 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 05-13-2014, 02:02 PM   #16
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I might be! A coupla weeks ago I was talking to our course superintendent who was mentioning these 15" cups and how he'd like to have a fun tournament where the cups would be placed in outrageous spots on the greens, like on the far edges on slopes...places where you could never cut a regular cup.

Regarding different sized cups.....I have played at another club which has about 3 cups cut SMALLER....like 3" diameter....on their practice green. This is a great training aide for putting drills. You putt at the smaller cup for maybe 10 minutes before your round and once you get on the course, the regulation hole seems huge!
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:41 PM   #17
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How much larger does the hole have to be to eliminate from the game of golf, the lip-out?
Unfortunately, the analysis that was the base for this little movie, was of the lip-out itself and other items related to golf, not how much to enlarge the hole to eliminate them.
In viewing the movie, which has a perfect setup, it doesn't appear that the golf hole would need to be much larger than another 1/2" or so but that's just a guess, it might be that another 1/4" would do it.

http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/GOLF/Golfcup.mov

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Old 05-14-2014, 04:03 PM   #18
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No. The reason that you lip out is that you hit the ball harder then needed. That is why I hate it when the give a player grief for not getting it to the hole, but applaud the player that bashes it past the hole. Lag it into the hole is best way to putt.

The reason it does not drop in the cup is that the velocity of the ball is great enough to overcome gravity. I won't bore anyone with the exact math.

Of course when you have that one or 2 footer that you need, give it some juice to take any break out of the equation.

Last week I made a 60 ft chip in from off the green. Nice feeling, playing partners more excited then me. Wouldn't be the same feeling with a 15" hole.

Also made some clutch putts in the 5 foot range to save some pars and bogies (being bogie golf my base line), that made for some good feelings. 15" would be automatic. Not the same feeling that I would get from a "natural" par or birdie.

There are better ways to make the game easier and enjoyable for the beginer and children. Well groomed and easy par 3 courses and executive courses with less groups on the course at the same time.
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by xman5 View Post
No. The reason that you lip out is that you hit the ball harder then needed. That is why I hate it when the give a player grief for not getting it to the hole, but applaud the player that bashes it past the hole. Lag it into the hole is best way to putt.

The reason it does not drop in the cup is that the velocity of the ball is great enough to overcome gravity. I won't bore anyone with the exact math.

Of course when you have that one or 2 footer that you need, give it some juice to take any break out of the equation.

Last week I made a 60 ft chip in from off the green. Nice feeling, playing partners more excited then me. Wouldn't be the same feeling with a 15" hole.

Also made some clutch putts in the 5 foot range to save some pars and bogies (being bogie golf my base line), that made for some good feelings. 15" would be automatic. Not the same feeling that I would get from a "natural" par or birdie.

There are better ways to make the game easier and enjoyable for the beginer and children. Well groomed and easy par 3 courses and executive courses with less groups on the course at the same time.
Just to be clear, you would be against making a minor enlargement of the regulation hole to eliminate lip-outs, is that correct?
I am not talking about much, just enough so that the example putt in the movie, stays in the hole rather than lip-out. Whether that's an increase of 1/2" or 1/4" or other, I don't know, that would be determined by experts.

I am not talking about edge burners, putts hit way too hard, I am talking about well struck putts that have good direction and speed, that catch a lot of the hole, yet currently lip-out.
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by gxer View Post
Just to be clear, you would be against making a minor enlargement of the regulation hole to eliminate lip-outs, is that correct?
I am not talking about much, just enough so that the example putt in the movie, stays in the hole rather than lip-out. Whether that's an increase of 1/2" or 1/4" or other, I don't know, that would be determined by experts.

I am not talking about edge burners, putts hit way too hard, I am talking about well struck putts that have good direction and speed, that catch a lot of the hole, yet currently lip-out.
There will always be the possibility of a lip out no matter the size of the hole. 2 reasons.

However to your point of making the hole larger, it will decrees the frequency of lip outs. I am not sure that a change of 1/4 to a 1/2 will make a decrees that is noticeable.

Ok for all you math majors please check my work.

For a ball to fall into the hole it has a speed that it must be rolling under so that it's equator will fall into the cup before hitting the opposite lip. A simple model is:

v<(2H-R)sqr(g/2r)

H is the hole radius
v is the maximum speed

So a larger hole will allow for a greater maximum speeds graphed over the complete radius (almost like an event horizon graph for light) . So some of those shots that you hit a little too hard will now fall.

Of course this does not take into account if the hole was placed on a slope and the direction of the slope and the angle of approach to the hole (your line). Also it does not take into account if there is any damage or imperfections in the hole.

Secondly, a larger hole will decrees the number of times that you are on the edge. But that is sort of a restatement of the mathematical concept above. That can be show in the graph i described above.

On the y axis is the hole diameter and the x axis is the arrival speed. That will give you an "effective" hole diameter for any arrival speed.

With all that said, putting is about feel not math.

Simple concept, bigger holes (15" ) is much easier because you do not have to be accurate. Secondly as shown by the math above that a hole that size also removes the concept of proper speed in putting.
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