Keeping Faith, Ochoa Takes Magical Tour

sag · 06-22-2008, 02:09 AM

Keeping Faith, Ochoa Takes Magical Tour

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/sp...ts&oref=slogin

MarinePaul · 06-22-2008, 06:44 AM

Great article, sag.

Galugo · 06-23-2008, 11:13 PM

Lorena does seem like a nice person, but I would be a bit uncomfortable if my employer told me that she feared my children were not going to heaven.

Putter · 06-24-2008, 02:12 AM

I'm not a religious person myself, but I do know that Lorena is. I'm sure she said it to her caddy in a caring way and not to be intimidating - that's not her style. I also don't like people to shove their religion down my throat, but she expressed her beliefs to someone she obviously cares about - apparently he agreed with her.

xman5 · 06-24-2008, 10:26 AM

I guess according to her I am out of luck, not being a Christian. Better bring some warm weather clothes.

MarinePaul · 06-24-2008, 10:32 AM

The problem with discussing religious beliefs is that every religion thinks they have the only answer to getting into their version of Heaven. Lorena was expressing her beliefs, which don't agree with mine, but didn't do it in a malicious manner.

virginian · 06-24-2008, 08:34 PM

There are times in life when I am not sure how to say what I want to say. This is one of those times. So please bear with me. When you wade into the subject of faith, you never know whether you are going into the shallow end or the deep end, so you better know how to swim. I'm a former Navy man so I know how to swim. And when you decide to talk about faith, you never know who will listen and who will walk away. So you better be able to accept complete acceptance or complete rejection. You folks should know that I know all about, and can accept, both.

When it comes to faith, the first choice we make is whether or not we believe in God. If we do believe, the next choice we make is what religion we will use to practice and communicate that faith. If most of what I say makes no sense to you, I hope this next thing I say is something that does make sense. There can only be on right religion. Here is an example of what I mean: A religion that says Christ is the Savior CAN NOT be right IF another religion that says Christ is not the Savior IS right.

I am 50 years old and for most of those years I have struggled to figure out my purpose in life. But I learned early in the process that I am not here to convert anyone. I have only one obligation when it comes to you and that is to love you. I have numerous obligations when it comes to God. One of them is to introduce you to God if you have not met and to stay out of the way if you have.

Why am I saying this? Why does any of this matter to me? The answer is simple. However grand and glorious Heaven may be, it will be less so if you are not there with me.

I am describing what I believe ... but I may also be describing what Lorena believes. There are some arenas in life where ties don't have to be broken with a playoff. For me it has always been Grace and no one else. Now it is Grace and Lorena.

Putter · 06-25-2008, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by virginian

I am describing what I believe ... but I may also be describing what Lorena believes. There are some arenas in life where ties don't have to be broken with a playoff. For me it has always been Grace and no one else. Now it is Grace and Lorena.

Huh? I hate to be rude...honestly, I really do, but wasn't this a discussion about Lorena's religious beliefs? I'm pretty sure this is what we were talking about. Ties don't need to be broken? Well DUH, yes they do in a tournament! A tie in life is a totally different thing because it's a tie about what YOU believe and what I believe.

From your post Dale, it appears you'll now be a Lorena fan because of her beliefs? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's sure what it looks like to me. Religious beliefs make you a fan?

As I've said, I don't care what anyone's religious beliefs are, and if Lorena's beliefs don't agree with mine, that's ok, but what are you talking about?

Sorry, but I just don't "get" your post.

sag · 06-25-2008, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by MarinePaul

The problem with discussing religious beliefs is that every religion thinks they have the only answer to getting into their version of Heaven.

Some of the religious leaders may claim such a monopoly, but most of their American followers don't agree:

Religious Americans: My faith isn't the only way
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...QGYTwD91FSUQ00

MarinePaul · 06-25-2008, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by sag

Some of the religious leaders may claim such a monopoly, but most of their American followers don't agree:

Religious Americans: My faith isn't the only way
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...QGYTwD91FSUQ00

You've obviously never been to a Southern Baptist church. According to them only Baptists will get to Heaven.

The point is, religion is, and should remain, a personal thing. My beliefs are entirely different than those Baptist ministers my parents subjected me to.
That doesn't make them wrong and me right, it simply means we believe differently.

Like Putter, I personally don't care what a person believes, or doesn't believe. I judge a person's character on their actions, not on the religious beliefs.

06-22-2008, 02:09 AM	#1
sag Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 626	Keeping Faith, Ochoa Takes Magical Tour Keeping Faith, Ochoa Takes Magical Tour http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/sp...ts&oref=slogin

06-22-2008, 06:44 AM	#2
MarinePaul Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 8,003	Great article, sag. __________________ Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have.

06-24-2008, 02:12 AM	#4
Putter Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,296 Images: 26	I'm not a religious person myself, but I do know that Lorena is. I'm sure she said it to her caddy in a caring way and not to be intimidating - that's not her style. I also don't like people to shove their religion down my throat, but she expressed her beliefs to someone she obviously cares about - apparently he agreed with her. __________________ Putter

06-24-2008, 10:32 AM	#6
MarinePaul Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 8,003	The problem with discussing religious beliefs is that every religion thinks they have the only answer to getting into their version of Heaven. Lorena was expressing her beliefs, which don't agree with mine, but didn't do it in a malicious manner. __________________ Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have.

06-24-2008, 08:34 PM	#7
virginian Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Phoenix Arizona Posts: 442	There are times in life when I am not sure how to say what I want to say. This is one of those times. So please bear with me. When you wade into the subject of faith, you never know whether you are going into the shallow end or the deep end, so you better know how to swim. I'm a former Navy man so I know how to swim. And when you decide to talk about faith, you never know who will listen and who will walk away. So you better be able to accept complete acceptance or complete rejection. You folks should know that I know all about, and can accept, both. When it comes to faith, the first choice we make is whether or not we believe in God. If we do believe, the next choice we make is what religion we will use to practice and communicate that faith. If most of what I say makes no sense to you, I hope this next thing I say is something that does make sense. There can only be on right religion. Here is an example of what I mean: A religion that says Christ is the Savior *CAN NOT* be right IF another religion that says Christ is not the Savior IS right. I am 50 years old and for most of those years I have struggled to figure out my purpose in life. But I learned early in the process that I am not here to convert anyone. I have only one obligation when it comes to you and that is to love you. I have numerous obligations when it comes to God. One of them is to introduce you to God if you have not met and to stay out of the way if you have. Why am I saying this? Why does any of this matter to me? The answer is simple. However grand and glorious Heaven may be, it will be less so if you are not there with me. I am describing what I believe ... but I may also be describing what Lorena believes. There are some arenas in life where ties don't have to be broken with a playoff. For me it has always been Grace and no one else. Now it is Grace and Lorena. __________________ Dale Fan of *Park Ji Eun* (Grace Park)

06-23-2008, 11:13 PM	#3
Galugo Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 124	Lorena does seem like a nice person, but I would be a bit uncomfortable if my employer told me that she feared my children were not going to heaven.

06-24-2008, 10:26 AM	#5
xman5 Contest Statistician Join Date: May 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 3,904	I guess according to her I am out of luck, not being a Christian. Better bring some warm weather clothes.

06-25-2008, 01:36 AM	#8
Putter Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,296 Images: 26	Originally Posted by virginian I am describing what I believe ... but I may also be describing what Lorena believes. There are some arenas in life where ties don't have to be broken with a playoff. For me it has always been Grace and no one else. Now it is Grace and Lorena. Huh? I hate to be rude...honestly, I really do, but wasn't this a discussion about Lorena's religious beliefs? I'm pretty sure this is what we were talking about. Ties don't need to be broken? Well DUH, yes they do in a tournament! A tie in life is a totally different thing because it's a tie about what YOU believe and what I believe. From your post Dale, it appears you'll now be a Lorena fan because of her beliefs? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's sure what it looks like to me. Religious beliefs make you a fan? As I've said, I don't care what anyone's religious beliefs are, and if Lorena's beliefs don't agree with mine, that's ok, but what are you talking about? Sorry, but I just don't "get" your post. __________________ Putter

06-25-2008, 03:12 AM	#9
sag Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 626	Originally Posted by MarinePaul The problem with discussing religious beliefs is that every religion thinks they have the only answer to getting into their version of Heaven. Some of the religious leaders may claim such a monopoly, but most of their American followers don't agree: Religious Americans: My faith isn't the only way http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...QGYTwD91FSUQ00

06-25-2008, 08:25 AM	#10
MarinePaul Moderator Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 8,003	Originally Posted by sag Some of the religious leaders may claim such a monopoly, but most of their American followers don't agree: Religious Americans: My faith isn't the only way http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...QGYTwD91FSUQ00 You've obviously never been to a Southern Baptist church. According to them only Baptists will get to Heaven. The point is, religion is, and should remain, a personal thing. My beliefs are entirely different than those Baptist ministers my parents subjected me to. That doesn't make them wrong and me right, it simply means we believe differently. Like Putter, I personally don't care what a person believes, or doesn't believe. I judge a person's character on their actions, not on the religious beliefs. __________________ Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have.

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