Keeping Faith, Ochoa Takes Magical Tour

[MoReb51]

Originally Posted by MarinePaul

You've obviously never been to a Southern Baptist church. According to them only Baptists will get to Heaven.

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hey, hey, hey.............. I resemble that remark!

[virginian]

Originally Posted by Putter

From your post Dale, it appears you'll now be a Lorena fan because of her beliefs? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's sure what it looks like to me. Religious beliefs make you a fan?

Lorena's religious beliefs did not make me a fan of hers. I have been a fan for years. Her religious beliefs have elevated her among my favorites to a position equal to Grace.

Each of us has his or her personal reasons for being a fan of a particular golfer. Among them may be talent, ranking, personality, determination, etc. We have had numerous discussions in several threads about why Grace is my favorite. I think she's pretty. That got my attention. I think she's talented. And I like her personality. Those things moved her to the top of my list.

As for Lorena, a month ago I probably would have named 8 or 10 other golfers before I named her as one of my favorites. But I have always been a fan. She's talented and nice. If you watch her interact with her fans, you can not help but be impressed. Now that I know about her faith, she is right there at the top with Grace.

You may have other reasons for having favorites. That's fine.

[virginian]

Originally Posted by MarinePaul

You've obviously never been to a Southern Baptist church. According to them only Baptists will get to Heaven.

I was born into a Southern Baptist family. Up until I was 33 I considered myself to be a Southern Baptist. I have never, not once, heard a single Southern Baptist minister say that only Baptists will get to Heaven.

[MarinePaul]

Originally Posted by MoReb51

hey, hey, hey.............. I resemble that remark!

I was raised in that particular faith up until I was able to decide for myself that it didn't fit with my particular beliefs. It seems to me that good people, regardless of which church they attend, or don't attend, will be rewarded. Bad people won't, also regardless of which faith they practice.

[profdan]

Thanks for the link, sag. I have a great deal of respect for Lorena, not only as a golfer but also as a person.

[MarinePaul]

Originally Posted by virginian

I was born into a Southern Baptist family. Up until I was 33 I considered myself to be a Southern Baptist. I have never, not once, heard a single Southern Baptist minister say that only Baptists will get to Heaven.

Were you listening? Our preacher used to constantly say that Catholics, Jews, etc. didn't have a chance to get to Heaven, because they weren't "Born Again." It's another fairy tale, like Moses taking forty years to get across the desert, or Samson wiping out an entire army with the jawbone of an ass. Great stories, but hardly believable.

[MoReb51]

Originally Posted by MarinePaul

I was raised in that particular faith up until I was able to decide for myself that it didn't fit with my particular beliefs. It seems to me that good people, regardless of which church they attend, or don't attend, will be rewarded. Bad people won't, also regardless of which faith they practice.

I am still of that faith, but I am like you in that I don't feel that you have to be "Born Again". As long as you have a belief in Him and try to hold to His teachings, you will enter his Kingdom.

May be a little off-topic but, one movie I found that really approached this subject with some objectivity was "Footloose", when Kevin Bacon argued his case in front of the City Council about their ordinance against dancing.

[MarinePaul]

Originally Posted by MoReb51

I am still of that faith, but I am like you in that I don't feel that you have to be "Born Again". As long as you have a belief in Him and try to hold to His teachings, you will enter his Kingdom.

May be a little off-topic but, one movie I found that really approached this subject with some objectivity was "Footloose", when Kevin Bacon argued his case in front of the City Council about their ordinance against dancing.

There you go. Belief doesn't mean you have to buy into the dogma.

I agree about "Footloose." It presented both sides of the issue reasonably well.

For those who remember the 50's, the religious leaders thought Elvis was vulgar, and hated Rock & Roll in general.

[virginian]

If you are born into a particular faith, are taught that faith, grow up in that faith and all of the important people in your life belong to that faith, it is hard to imagine that you would not believe in that faith. Be that as it may, I don't think that relieves any of us from performing ongoing thoughtful reflection about what the possibilities are.

I think many of us believe, even hope, that if we live our lives in a way that our neighbors and society at large believe is good, that will be enough to save us. And it would be enough if our neighbors were our final judges.

But if God exists, then God is the judge. And I don't believe God will be handing out waivers on judgment day. If the Christian faith (Catholic and protestant) is right, then the others are not. If the Jewish faith is right then the others are not. If the Islamic faith is right then the others are not. If Buddhism, or Taoism or any single faith is right, then the others are not.

If you really believe that all you have to do is follow the dictates of your neighbors' definition of right and wrong and you will be saved, I hope you're right. I really do.

And if God asks me, I will recommend that God save all people who have good hearts. Why? I always hearken back to my hallmark statement: However glorious Heaven may be, it will be less glorious if you are not there with me.

[MarinePaul]

Being born and raised in a particular faith doesn't mean that you have to follow that faith throughout your lifetime. Following that logic, if everyone in your family is a mechanic, you can't be anything but a mechanic.

As I grew older, I began to develop my own conception of what religion should be, and it didn't coincide with what some idiot was telling me every Sunday morning, even with the chorus of "Amens" that went along with every sentence he uttered. In fact, when you think about it in the grand scheme of things, Christianity is a minor religion worldwide. There are far more Shintos, Islamics, Jews and Buddhists than Christians. So, who's to say that Christianity is the "right" religion?

Let's be real here. The purpose of any religion is to teach love, understanding and tolerance of your fellow man. Radicals in any religion can justify ridding the earth of anyone who doesn't believe as they do, of course, and can find some passage in their Bible, Koran, Torah or whatever to justify their position.

I used to consider myself an agnostic, but have come to believe that there's a power far greater than myself. What I can't believe is that my choosing to find a spiritual connection through nature is any less valid than spending my Sunday mornings in a church.

I get much more connection to God walking through the woods, or watching a sunset, watching an eagle fly than by listening to some minister telling me how to worship. If that dooms me to the Christian version of hell, then it does.