Korean boom on LPGA has peaked

[ajraymond]

The make such a big deal about the "Asians" dominating as a whole but when you get to the nuts and bolts of the matter there is only a handful that win on any kind of consistent basis. Shin who in my mind is the best player in the world, Miyazato,Tseng, NY Choi and IKK. As for the practicing, I had a good laugh reading Ji Yai Shins pre-tournament interview at the British Open. The interviewer pretty much insisted that Shin must be out practicing all the time and that is why she is number one in the world. Shin said she practices more with her head and not physically anymore. Ah the stereotypes and pre-conceived notions of Asian players. Shot down once again!

[bangkokbobby]

Originally Posted by ajraymond

The make such a big deal about the "Asians" dominating as a whole but when you get to the nuts and bolts of the matter there is only a handful that win on any kind of consistent basis. Shin who in my mind is the best player in the world, Miyazato,Tseng, NY Choi and IKK. As for the practicing, I had a good laugh reading Ji Yai Shins pre-tournament interview at the British Open. The interviewer pretty much insisted that Shin must be out practicing all the time and that is why she is number one in the world. Shin said she practices more with her head and not physically anymore. Ah the stereotypes and pre-conceived notions of Asian players. Shot down once again!

I don't know if I'd take Shin's response as the completely accurate...make no mistake, the Koreans as a whole will open and shut the practice range. And Shin...she might have meant that SHE doesn't practice as much as she use to...but she works extremely hard on her game and conditioning...

Off season workouts with Ji Young Oh...






...I think that was an answer to a reporter that sounds more accurate than it is...I know the up and coming Koreans on the KLPGA are pushed by their parents to practice like you would not believe...with no assurance of success...I just think Ji Yai means she doesn't do that anymore...

...and I don't think it's just about the winners...a lot of people...when they see a lot of Asian names in the Top 5 or 10 during the weekend, don't tune in...and it's the disproportionate numbers of them that worries people...for example, for a small country, they have the same number of British Open entrants, 29, as the USA...

...one note...the British Open for the last two years has listed Ji Young Oh as representing the USA...she was born in Seoul, Korea...does anybody know if she gained US citizenship...the LPGA site is listing her as an International player...don't know if the British Open got this wrong or if they know something I don't...which is entirely possible...but for now, I'm counting Ji Young Oh as Korean, not American as the WBO site has her...

...it might only be a few winning multiple times...but a lot people see the Asians as one entity...and that's wrong...but just that group you mentioned have 7 wins this year...Asians have won 10 of 16 events on the LPGA this year...10 of 15 if you exclude Mojo 6...that's two-thirds of the events...a lot of American fans...not the ones in this forum...but they are out there...I've read enough blogs and heard it rehashed over and over...look at those wins, roll theirs eyes and think...another Asian...or another Korean (Se Ri, Sun Young Yoo and Hee Kyung Seo also have wins this year)...a lot of Americans don't want to see that...

[bangkokbobby]

Here's a story that deals with some of the pressure young Korean players face from parents...and some say, the government and sports bodies...

[Blue]

Originally Posted by bangkokbobby

...and let me add...the Koreans in the ROY race this year...they're good players but I can name just off the top of my head 10 young players on the KLPGA better than the Korean rookies currently on the LPGA...they just aren't risking coming here right now...some others are too young...

My post was about Koreans in the LPGA, not about Koreans in the KLPGA. I assume there will always be Koreans in the KLPGA. Whether these players might be better than the young players on the LPGA remains to be seen but it's does not matter if they choose not to come here.

By the way, you don't have to get so defensive. The upcoming dwindling number of Koreans is not necessarily a bad thing or a good thing, it's just a demographic fact that I observed.

[Blue]

Originally Posted by ajraymond

The make such a big deal about the "Asians" dominating as a whole but when you get to the nuts and bolts of the matter there is only a handful that win on any kind of consistent basis. Shin who in my mind is the best player in the world, Miyazato,Tseng, NY Choi and IKK. As for the practicing, I had a good laugh reading Ji Yai Shins pre-tournament interview at the British Open. The interviewer pretty much insisted that Shin must be out practicing all the time and that is why she is number one in the world. Shin said she practices more with her head and not physically anymore. Ah the stereotypes and pre-conceived notions of Asian players. Shot down once again!

Good points about the Asian stereotype which it looks like our friend bangkokbobby even seems to believe. I think some Asian-Americans are proud of that stereotype. Who wouldn't be? It's a great trait to be thought of as harder working than one's peers. Like most stereotypes, I think there is some truth in it, but it's grossly exaggerated.

However, with regard to demographics, while the data show that Koreans will start to dwindle in numbers on the LPGA in the next five years or so, there is no data showing that players from other Asian countries, particularly Japan and China will lessen. There is every indication that players from China will increase as they have in just about every international sport.

[bangkokbobby]

Originally Posted by Blue

My post was about Koreans in the LPGA, not about Koreans in the KLPGA. I assume there will always be Koreans in the KLPGA. Whether these players might be better than the young players on the LPGA remains to be seen but it's does not matter if they choose not to come here.

By the way, you don't have to get so defensive. The upcoming dwindling number of Koreans is not necessarily a bad thing or a good thing, it's just a demographic fact that I observed.

It not a question of being defensive...I'm pointing out that the numbers you are using to support your hypothesis are leaving out some important facts...ROY numbers...Q-school...Durameds...those are all being affected by who has decided to come to the States...many of the best have chosen not to come here the last two years...that's a fact...not a guess...supported by facts...so when you say it will take 10 years before we see another wave of Koreans, the generation inspired by Shin, that might not be true should some of the talented 14 though 17 year old on the KLPGA decide to come...they might not...so although you are talking about Korean players who are here, the players who are here...particularly the rookies and Durameds players...leave out many of the best players on the KLPGA...if those better players decide to come, we could see more Korean wins here...look at what Hee Kyung Seo did this year in only a few starts...Kia Champion...and she has yet to win this year in Korea...there are plenty of young stars outplaying her this year...don't discount those young Korean players...or the amateurs there...remember, Ji Yai Shin's first win in Korea came while she was an amateur still in high school...

...as for the stereotype of hard working...it's not a stereotype...they way they are pushed by Korean parents is a fact...not only supported in the article I posted but by others I could post...and video, too...it's nothing that I'm proud of...it's the result of overzealous parents...parents who, in many cases, gamble the family resources on their daughters...with a small percentage chance that those daughters will make it big...we only hear of the success stories...but there are far more stories of Korean families whose daughters don't make it and leave their families in deep financial straits...I blame the fathers in most cases...if you want more articles...I can post them...video, too...these fathers force their daughters...they wouldn't say force them but they do...to practice, practice, practice, practice...there is a reason why Judy Rankin and others point out the great swings the Korean players tend to bring with them when they come here...because they've been honed by countless hours under their fathers' overzealous eye...

...you seem to think it's about me...it's not about me or what I want...I just follow the Korean players, particularly ones still in Korea, probably a lot more than anybody on this board except Kevin (IceCat)...what I say is not out of emotion or pride of being defensive...I'm not a part of this...last time I checked, I am not a female Korean golfer...but what I am is somebody who has closely followed the KLPGA for a long time...and some of your hypotheses are leaving out some points...

...when I say the young girls there are forced by fathers to practice, practice, practice...I can back that up with people who have gone there and followed young girls and done stories on how they are forced to practice...again, they wouldn't say forced...but when your family invests all it has in your career, whether you like it or not you have to constantly work on your skills...

...when I say the better players have made a conscious decision to go to Japan or stay in Korea rather than come here the past two years, I can back that up with their own statements...and that affects how Koreans are doing on Durameds and as Rookies and Q-school...

...I won't be at home today, so I can't post the way I have the past two days...but if you'd like, I can source the material I'm using for my statements and post them here...

...you can try to make it personal by saying BKB is defensive or BKB believes the stereotype...but I can back up the claims I'm making with specific stories of specific players and their decisions about coming here or practice habits...

[xman5]

Originally Posted by bangkokbobby;106691
...not to get off topic...but I found the poll in this forum about 2009 ROY predictions...

[url

http://www.mylpga.com/forum/f12/who-will-2009-lpga-rookie-year-4732-9.html[/url]

...you know...don't kill me for this...but Ji Yai won three events in 2008 including a Major...I understand she finished second in the poll, but with 29% of the vote? THREE tournaments in 2008...a MAJOR! The million dollar ADT! She should have won 80% of the vote minimum! I love Michelle Wie, too...but how did she win that poll? Can you imagine how lopsided the poll would have been if Wie had won the British, Mizuno and ADT as a non-member going into 2009?

That's not fair. The vote was basically 1/3 Wie 1/3 Shin 1/3 Lewis. It's pretty easy to assume that a lot of people would vote for Wie. Once she was committed to playing a full schedule it seemed logical that she would finally break out. Of course that did not happen. Statistically with that small of a sample with the margin off error it is a 3 way tie.

Not to get off on a tangent but,

If I hade to wear a hat and shirt that said NEFS (no idea what that is) I would have to quit playing. Sorry just can't do it.

[bangkokbobby]

Originally Posted by xman5

That's not fair. The vote was basically 1/3 Wie 1/3 Shin 1/3 Lewis. It's pretty easy to assume that a lot of people would vote for Wie. Once she was committed to playing a full schedule it seemed logical that she would finally break out. Of course that did not happen. Statistically with that small of a sample with the margin off error it is a 3 way tie.

Not to get off on a tangent but,

If I hade to wear a hat and shirt that said NEFS (no idea what that is) I would have to quit playing. Sorry just can't do it.

Could you have imagined anybody picking against Wie had she won three tournaments in 2008, including a Major in 10 starts while playing full-time on another tour, where incidentally she was torching all of Se Ri's records? Not only would people have made her a lock to win 2009 ROY, but they would have proclaimed her one of the favorites to win POY...if Wie had won 3 tournaments in 2008 before her rookie year, Wie fans, including me, would have set expectations out of this world for her...many of us Wie fans did that WITHOUT 3 wins and a Major...

...also imagine if Stacy Lewis or Vicky Hurst had won a Major and two other events going into 2009 as non-members in 2008...they'd have been seen as overwhelming favorites to win ROY...

...1/3 of the vote (statistically less than that) was way too low considering what she had accomplished on the LPGA in 2008 (much less what she did around the world, not just Korea)...

...also, one last thing on the working hard aspect...

...everybody on the LPGA tour works hard and practices...well, except maybe European Laura Davies...she hates to practice...but she plays an insane schedule...

...what I'm talking about is the formative years where the players develop their mechanics...that's when daddy pulls them out of regular school and stands over their shoulders 24/7 watching them hit balls...over and over and over...and reminds them they have the financial future of their families on their little 14 year old shoulders...

[bangkokbobby]

...actually, not just the formative years...many of them bring that work ethic here, because they are still supporting families...many of the top players like Se Ri and Ji Yai might be able to tune it down a notch because they've made so much money...others are still fighting...

...it's not just me saying that...reporters who have witnessed it themselves say it...I have video of Ron Sirak and Laura Baugh commenting on what they've seen...other players have said it...it's not an opinion...they will open and close a practice range...

...that's not something I'm "proud" of or think is great...I think it's an unhealthy byproduct of their upbringing with their fathers (primarily)...

[Blue]

These "who will win..." polls on myLPGA.com are hardly scientific or representative of, well, anything, other than what people who happen to visit this site over a certain period of time want to state. Some people take it seriously, some don't.

The fact that people picked Wie and Shin and Lewis equally for ROY reflected a lot of things:

• Shin had all those wins on the LPGA and worldwide. On the downside, there was talk of a sophomore slump and possible burnout given the number of tournaments she was playing worldwide.
• Wie had massive, unprecedented name recognition and media promotion. For years the media had told us that once she joined pro full-time she would dominate. On the downside, it was still unknown how many events she would play on the LPGA.
• Lewis was a superstar in college and the best player in the history of the Curtis Cup. She also nearly won the USWO in 2008. On the downside, she was still the least known of the three leading contenders.

Given all of this, the picks make sense.

I don't see the poll results were a statement for or against Asians or Asian-Americans or their hard working habits.